 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Winch Electric Cable |
 
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8578  
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There is no straight forward answer to your question.
It depends on many different factors what size electric cable to go for. IF you are going in for winch competitions you will need heavier electric cable. If all you are doing is self recovery on normal off road activities you are unlikely to get as badly stuck as doing winch competition. For self recovery you can double line which put crudely halves the load on the winch and drastically reduces the current draw. Also as it is slower it could also be considered safer. What you need to consider is both the continuous rating and duty cycle rating of the electric cable you intend using. Different cables of the same cross section area can have slightly different continuous rating. To give you an idea of some ratings: Cross sectional area(mm sq) 100% Duty cycle 60% Duty cycle 10mm 91 amps 160 amps 16mm 135 amps 230 amps 25mm 180 amps 300 amps 35mm 225 amps 375 amps 50mm 285 amps 480 amps 70mm 355 amps 560 amps As the duty cycle decreases the current increases Brendan |
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3rd Oct 2012 9:20pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 7748 
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this is debated quite a lot on the various forums i use where i am mainly competing.
50mm is generally considered the min by those that use winches regularly and in anger ie Comps those running twin motors tend to go for 70mm. i run 50mm for my truck with an 8274 on the front and a Husky on the rear - single Bow2 motors on each with 12v. i run 70mm on my trayback with (currently a borrowed twin top with Bow2s) front and single Bow3 8274 rear with 12 or 24 switchable supply. for your application i would run 50mm. i would run earth all the way to bat neg i would fit a suitable rated durite (£40?) cutoff in the positive between bat and albright supply. Cheers James 110 XS Utility 130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making) 90 Puma Hardtop |
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3rd Oct 2012 9:45pm |
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| Marius Member Since: 21 Dec 2010 Location: South Africa Posts: 231  
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Yes.....I thought as much. Just wanted to confirm it
Next problem is that the standard fitted cables are going to be too short to get to the battery box so I will have to replace them. Has anyone done this on a Warn. It seems you have to unbolt the chassis of the winch to get to where the cables are fitted. Is this something I can do myself? Does seals need replacing once opened? Thus is it better to get new cables fitted by a Warn Service agent perhaps? |
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4th Oct 2012 7:10am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 7748
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you can do it yourself. you will find its lacking seals there anyway i expect (depending on model) just reseal with RTV /silicon or similar.
i certainly wouldn't be paying someone to do it Cheers James 110 XS Utility 130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making) 90 Puma Hardtop |
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4th Oct 2012 7:11am |
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| Yannis Member Since: 02 Feb 2015 Location: Oxfordshire / Milan Posts: 407 
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Where is a good place to source electrical cable for wiring a winch?
Looking around it seems quite expensive, approx £8 per meter for 50mm^2 not exactly sure how much I will need yet but let's say 4m of both black and red, that's £64 Goodwinch seem to do a kit for £72 However a quick look on my favourite auction site, I can get a set of 50mm^2 jump leads that are 5m long for £30 Could I not just cut he ends off and crimp on some terminals of my own and save half the price? |
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20th Dec 2016 2:03pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16982 
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I usually use arc welding cable from my local welding supplier. It is more flexible and harder-wearing than automotive cable (and, yes, more expensive).
Re. your csa question, you want to use larger cable for longer runs to minimise voltage drop along the cable. Personally I usually use 90mm^2 cable so that there is negligible loss in the cable even at max load. Seems daft to me to quibble about £100 of cable if you're fitting a £1000 winch (although I realise your winch is a lot less than this)! |
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20th Dec 2016 2:13pm |
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| Yannis Member Since: 02 Feb 2015 Location: Oxfordshire / Milan Posts: 407
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Looking at the posts above, I think 90mm^2 seems a bit overkill unless I'm going to start entering challenge events.
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20th Dec 2016 2:19pm |
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| 4ndy Member Since: 04 Jun 2016 Location: Cheshire Posts: 17 |
Something to keep in mind when buying cable online (or in general), if it appears cheap, it could be aluminium rather than copper core, and wouldn't be suitable. Also, cheaper cable can be a lot more loosely packed, so a 50mm2 cable from one supplier will have less copper in it than another. Not an owner... yet!
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20th Dec 2016 3:13pm |
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| davew Member Since: 02 Jan 2012 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 888  
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50mm should be fine.
Ideally you need to know the resistance of the wire per foot/metre, the lower the better. When you power up your winch by activating the solenoid you are pretty much looking to short circuit the battery with the winch motor windings, even the slightest resistance in the cables will have a detrimental effect on the performance and power of the winch. In order to deliver 450A along a cable at 12V you would need a total resistance, including all the joints and the winch motor windings, of less than 0.026 of an ohm. As you pass current through a wire it's resistance increases because the resistance increases with temperature. The higher the resistance of the cable the quicker it's temperature will increase and the higher it's resistance will get. You normally start off with at least 10 joints in the circuit, plus another two if you have a separate circuit breaker, each of those will add some resistance to the overall count so the last thing you need is for your cable to add to it. Having a 450A 100% duty cycle is pretty pointless because you will never have an alternator or wiring capable of sustaining that sort of current for anything more than a few seconds. A thinner cross section wire will heat up quicker so it's resistance will increase quicker, decreasing the current through it. At the same time the load on the battery will result in the battery voltage trailing off which will further effect the current flow as the resistance will stay the same. 50mm2 of a good quality cable is what you need, jump start cables and other cheap options won't work because cheap cable is always dubious and many of those jump cables will barely pass 50A through them at 12v due to their internal resistance. Be wary of "welding cable" too as it's often much higher resistance than the normal cable for the same cross section. I usually get cable from vehicle wiring products although Brendan does normally have a stock of decent cable too http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ |
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20th Dec 2016 5:32pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971 
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Battery cable is expensive.
You can shop around a bit but it's never going to be cheap. I've tried the jump lead approach and wouldn't recommend it. I was only using it to link to my second battery and it seemed silly to me to buy a load of cable that I only needed 6" of when I had a spare set of jump leads. My "35mm2" jump leads were nothing like that. Probably more like 16mm2. That's fine for my purposes but no where near what it said on the packet. They have comically thick insulation with a tiny bit of metal inside. |
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20th Dec 2016 5:40pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 7748
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alot of jump leads state the external diameter including the insulation and its surprising how much insulation there can be!
35mm2 for occassional low current draw 50mm2 for more frequent use, twin batts single motor 70mm2 for Bow1 or Bow 2 heavy use. 90mm2 for Bow3s and comp use. i am now running 90mm2 throughout on trayback,. twin Bow 3 front, single Bow 3 rear. Cheers James 110 XS Utility 130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making) 90 Puma Hardtop |
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20th Dec 2016 6:01pm |
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| DuncanS Member Since: 07 Dec 2013 Location: Cumbria Posts: 298 
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I'm going to be running 95mm between the split charge and the batteries, then probably 50mm down to the winch, and 35mm to the andersons.
Cable doesn't come cheap, but its one of those that is worth doing right first time. Now the real debate comes to fuse or not to fuse the winch  North Cumbria Search and Rescue - Team Leader |
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20th Dec 2016 6:14pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 7748
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i wouldnt fuse it - dont see the need. Cheers
James 110 XS Utility 130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making) 90 Puma Hardtop |
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20th Dec 2016 6:38pm |
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| davew Member Since: 02 Jan 2012 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 888
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95mm between the split chart and the batteries ??? Bloody hell, what are you using to charge them ?
Not much point in a fuse for a winch, you're short circuiting the battery in normal operation anyway so a fuse that's big enough to cope with that is pretty unlikely to blow even if you took a cable directly from the fuse to the earth. Fuses are only really of use when the battery can supply enough current to melt the cable and even with 50mm I doubt very much that your battery will be able to do that. If you were using an ATV winch or similar with smaller cable then it makes sense but not with a normal winch setup. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ |
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20th Dec 2016 6:59pm |
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