 | Home > Series Land Rovers > Seat belt requirement for 1966 Series 2a. |
 
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| Gareth Member Since: 12 Dec 2011 Location: Bramhall Posts: 1038   
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I have a 1966 S2a which needs an MOT this week. The car is a 109 ex military soft top. As such it does not have a mounting for 3 point seat belts in the front.
It has a mounting for the lower lap belt in the bottom corner of the seat box, and it has mountings for the buckle end of the belt in the lower portion of the center bulkhead, between the front seats. Previous to my ownership, someone had drilled the top rails of the rear tub to mount the shoulder point of 3 point seat belts. This is not a strengthened point, and is too low to comfortably wear the seat belt. These belts are non-retractable and are not in good condition. My question is, for MOT purposes would lap belts be sufficient in this vehicle? The guide here http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_510.htm suggests not, andf that it should have 3 point belts, but it would appear that the soft top 2a did not have them from new, even in 1966. I'm confused, and would appreciate what other vehicles of same vintage have fitted? 2021 Defender 110 X-Dynamic HSE D300 MHEV 1966 S2a 109 aka Betsy 1968 S2a 88 aka Bob 2014 Jaaaag F Type 3.0 Supercharged. |
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10th Nov 2015 10:27am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16920  
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Cars and light vans constructed after the end of 1964 but prior to 31 March 1987 must be fitted with seat belts for the driver’s seat and outer passenger seat (if fitted). No belt is required for a central front passenger seat.
Cars and light vans constructed after 1 April 1987 must be fitted with belts for each seat. Central seats may be lap belts only, others must be lap and diagonal. So your vehicle must be fitted with three-point belts in the outer two front seat positions in order to pass the MOT test, lap straps alone are insufficient. (The info in the first two paragraphs above was taken from the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs' website, fbhvc.co.uk).
Not wishing to pick hairs or be pedantic, but the sentence in italics is not strictly true. When the seatbelt leislation was introduced it was partly restrospective, since it had been a legal requirement from c.1965 that cars had to have suitable mounting points for seatbelts, although the seatbelts could be optional extras. From 1966, it was (a) a requirement that seatbelts be fitted as standard, and (b) cars which had been manufactured during the period when mountings were required but belts not required had to have belts retro-fitted. However the legal requirement to wear the belts only came in much later (about 1981 if I remember correctly). It is therefore theoretically possible but highly unlikely that there may be some historic vehicles which have been off-the-road since 1965 where belts would have to be fitted before the car could be used on the road. I distinctly remember my dad's Ford Cortina Mk1 going for a service in 1966 and coming back with the new-fangled seatbelts fitted. In those days inertia reels hadn't been invented and they were "static" belts, and as the car was a 2-door it meant that you used to get tangle up in the belt getting in and out of the back! A long time ago now, though...  |
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10th Nov 2015 11:49am |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2557 
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Put a seat belt bar of some kind in, that will give you a raised mounting point for the upper belt fixing. Available as aftermarket options or the military 'roll hoop' kind I think have the mounting facility also.
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10th Nov 2015 2:21pm |
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| Triggerfinger Member Since: 18 Aug 2015 Location: landyrotty Posts: 129
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 A year out I stand corrected  Last edited by Triggerfinger on 11th Nov 2015 12:38am. Edited 1 time in total |
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10th Nov 2015 3:05pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16920
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A 1966 vehicle requires belts to be fitted, mounting points alone are insufficient.
Pre-1965 doesn't require belts. |
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10th Nov 2015 5:18pm |
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| Gareth Member Since: 12 Dec 2011 Location: Bramhall Posts: 1038
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I agree a 1966 vehicle needs belts. The question is how to safely fit 3 point to a soft top without using after market mounting bars. What did Land Rover do?
Bear in mind, mine came out of the army in 1972, and someone in the past has fitted 3 point static belts by drilling a hole. I have had the vehicle 20 years and its only become an issue because one of the fitted 3 point belts is frayed. I have a lap belt ready to fit. I will need to source a 3 point belt to fit. 2021 Defender 110 X-Dynamic HSE D300 MHEV 1966 S2a 109 aka Betsy 1968 S2a 88 aka Bob 2014 Jaaaag F Type 3.0 Supercharged. |
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10th Nov 2015 6:59pm |
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| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554 |
http://www.allwheeltrim.co.uk/Frames.html#Defender
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raised-Upper-Sea...1485421736 http://www.mm-4x4.com/soft-top-front-seat-belt-bar-5383-p.asp http://shop.challenger4x4.com/exmoor-trim-...6711-p.asp  Last edited by dorsetsmith on 10th Nov 2015 9:22pm. Edited 3 times in total |
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10th Nov 2015 7:16pm |
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| Gareth Member Since: 12 Dec 2011 Location: Bramhall Posts: 1038
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292 quid
Something to save up for. In the meantime, I have ordered a Halfords 3 point belt to get through mot, but I do like the look of that bar. 2021 Defender 110 X-Dynamic HSE D300 MHEV 1966 S2a 109 aka Betsy 1968 S2a 88 aka Bob 2014 Jaaaag F Type 3.0 Supercharged. |
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10th Nov 2015 7:20pm |
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| tonyhedge Member Since: 07 Jul 2015 Location: Worcestershire Posts: 101 
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Unfortunately I haven't found my "Optional Equipment" Catalogue since I moved house. But I seem to remember it was a system that fitted an inertia reel on a bracket on the inside of the tub, which then came up and over the shoulder, I think through some sort of loop riveted to the top of the seat to stop it sliding off the shoulder? I seem to remember the brakets were still available, at least up to about 10 years ago. Hopefully that might trigger someone else's memory - or see if your local dealer or indie has the catalogue. Good luck with the MOT! [Edited to add: a quick search failed to find what I was looking for, but did reveal that Exmoor do a mounting bar for £112.50 + VAT http://www.exmoortrim.co.uk/store/military...tail.html] That's not a dent, it's a rivet. That's not a dent, it's a rivet. That's not ... oh! That is a dent! 2014 90 XS SW 1997 Discovery 300TdiS (retired to stud) 1966 Series IIA 88" (now my son's) 2001 Astra - I need something to go and buy the parts when the others are off the road! |
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10th Nov 2015 7:37pm |
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| ceefax Member Since: 19 Apr 2015 Location: Near Sheffield Posts: 31 
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I have a 1980 military Series 3 soft top. It was fitted with three static lap belts when de-mobbed from the army, and passed many MOT's without comment from the tester.
So to answer the original question, yes it requires belts, and yes, lap belts are perfectly acceptable (even after 2006 legislation change), as these are what the vehicle was supplied with new. I fitted the Exmoor Trim seat belt bar and inertia belts a couple of years ago. The centre seat is still fitted with the lap belt, and each MOT the tester plugs it in to make sure the catch is working correctly. |
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10th Nov 2015 7:56pm |
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| ceefax Member Since: 19 Apr 2015 Location: Near Sheffield Posts: 31
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.....although reading the MOT regs I think my tester might have been a bit lenient
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10th Nov 2015 8:16pm |
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| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554 |
if you look up top i fond you sun more  |
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10th Nov 2015 9:25pm |
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| Gareth Member Since: 12 Dec 2011 Location: Bramhall Posts: 1038
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Excellent! thanks. 2021 Defender 110 X-Dynamic HSE D300 MHEV
1966 S2a 109 aka Betsy 1968 S2a 88 aka Bob 2014 Jaaaag F Type 3.0 Supercharged. |
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10th Nov 2015 9:59pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16920
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Bear in mind that military vehicles operated by the Crown are exempt from the need to comply with either the Construction & Use Regs or the Special Types Regs, so a military LR wouldn't need belts at all whilst in military service. The moment it is demobbed it would need belts which comply with C&U, ie 3-point. If you're lucky the tester may not know this! This is the reason why vehicles like ex-military Bedford MK and MJ trucks have to have under-run and side impact protection bars fitted, and also (sadly) why fantastic off-road vehicles like to 8x8 Unipower TBT will never be demobbed into normal enthusiasts' hands - the Unipower is overwidth and would be difficult to operate even under Special Types. There are many ex-mil preserved vehicles currently seen out and about on the roads which are illegal through being overwidth and which probably wouldn't get through the registration process nowadays. |
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10th Nov 2015 11:30pm |
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