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Goldenballs

Member Since: 22 Apr 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 79

Puma body on TD5 rolling chassis?

My dream landy would be the “luxuries” of a Puma but with a TD5..

Naturally there are 2 options:
1) buy a Puma and fit a TD5
2) buy a TD5 and fit a Puma body

(1) would technically have some emissions legislation issues (if you actually told anyone about it)
(2) has more technical challenges (I think?)

So my question is, how difficult would (2) be? I know there are some differences between the two - the engine is mounted in a different position, so the dash/gbx tunnel is slightly different, the second row seats would need their mountings, and the dash would need different electronics to drive it. Have I missed anything else?

12th May 2025 11:15pm

BrickBox

Member Since: 05 Oct 2021
Location: Wales
Posts: 958

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Zermatt Silver

TD5 into a Puma and using the MT82..match made in heaven.

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic93593...t=td5+puma 2008 2.4 110 Utility Station Wagon XS.

12th May 2025 11:21pm

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5922

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver

What are the “luxuries” of the Tdci?

Better heater/AC, but what else?

It would be nice to have a six speed box in a Td5, but I don’t find the 6 speed setup ratios are any better than a Td5 setup.

Less room in a Tdci due to dash, and I massively missed the bulkhead flaps

13th May 2025 8:50am

Linds Hanson

Member Since: 16 Jan 2021
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 521

M57 in a Puma would be a much better marriage.

13th May 2025 4:26pm

diesel_jim

Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6183

OR fit a Td5 engine into a puma....

13th May 2025 5:05pm

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 899

While a Td5 Puma sounds cool, I don't see how it can be road legal..... it is unlikely to meet emissions standards according to this:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection...8-nuisance

"If a vehicle first used on or after 1 September 2002 is fitted with a different engine, you must test it to the emissions standards for the age of the vehicle."

13th May 2025 7:13pm

BrickBox

Member Since: 05 Oct 2021
Location: Wales
Posts: 958

Shouldn’t be hard. A 2.4 Puma is only Euro 4. Just an EGR and one Cat. A TD5 must be Euro 4 also. 2008 2.4 110 Utility Station Wagon XS.

13th May 2025 8:16pm

Goldenballs

Member Since: 22 Apr 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 79

landy andy wrote:
What are the “luxuries” of the Tdci?

Better heater/AC, but what else?

It would be nice to have a six speed box in a Td5, but I don’t find the 6 speed setup ratios are any better than a Td5 setup.

Less room in a Tdci due to dash, and I massively missed the bulkhead flaps

Heater/AC, 6-speed & seats are the main things that i'd want.

14th May 2025 12:58am

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 899

The 6-speed is clunky on the Puma. I don't know if it would be better with a Td5? Would be interesting to see.

I know 6 gears sounds good, but do remember that the 6 speed box runs 1:1 in 5th gear, rather than 4th gear for 5 speed boxes. So you only really gain by having more non over drive gears.

I'd say regular Puma seats are not as nice or comfortable as earlier Defender seats. Although, they would be an easy swap if you really wanted them. The optional seats are very nice, but not the regular ones.

Heaters can work fine in older models too and I really wouldn't say the Puma one is an improvement. In fact I found it quite annoying and is much more on/off in its use and harder to get a nice temperature.

And likewise, the AC is not all that great. It is noisy and is not a climate control, so you have to continually fiddle with it or turn it on/off. I really don't think it is worth it tbh.

14th May 2025 10:10am

o4dn

Member Since: 08 Jan 2010
Location: South West
Posts: 579

2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Alaska White

BrickBox wrote:
Shouldn’t be hard. A 2.4 Puma is only Euro 4. Just an EGR and one Cat. A TD5 must be Euro 4 also.

AFAIK the TD5 15P with EGR is Euro 3, the Puma 2.4 is Euro 4 and the Puma 2.2 with DPF is Euro 5. “A Land Rover immobilized is a moral defeat for the driver and bad publicity for the vehicle, […] it's up to you to do justice to your Land Rover!” - Land Rover Driving Technique.
--
2009 2.4 Puma Defender 90 SW
1979 Land Rover Series 3 88"

14th May 2025 10:38am

o4dn

Member Since: 08 Jan 2010
Location: South West
Posts: 579

Chicken Drumstick wrote:
The 6-speed is clunky on the Puma. I don't know if it would be better with a Td5? Would be interesting to see.

I know 6 gears sounds good, but do remember that the 6 speed box runs 1:1 in 5th gear, rather than 4th gear for 5 speed boxes. So you only really gain by having more non over drive gears.

I find the MT82 to be a much nicer gearbox to use than the R380 that I found notchy in pretty all the ones I tried/owned. “A Land Rover immobilized is a moral defeat for the driver and bad publicity for the vehicle, […] it's up to you to do justice to your Land Rover!” - Land Rover Driving Technique.
--
2009 2.4 Puma Defender 90 SW
1979 Land Rover Series 3 88"

14th May 2025 10:42am

Goldenballs

Member Since: 22 Apr 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 79

Chicken Drumstick wrote:
I'd say regular Puma seats are not as nice or comfortable as earlier Defender seats. Although, they would be an easy swap if you really wanted them. The optional seats are very nice, but not the regular ones.

Surely the second row seats have different chassis requirements? I can understand the front row being a direct swap, but the back?

14th May 2025 11:13am

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 899

The R380 can be fine and smooth. But maybe a little notchy. In fact I've driven more nicer LT-77's than R380's, although an after market shift kit is likely to help the R380. The only notchy bit is the gear leer, the rest is super smooth.

Now, I'm not against the 6 speed, it should be a good strong box. Think it is used in the Ford Mustang.

But in a Puma the gearchange is super jerky compared to older models. Not just the lever action, the entire process of changing gear. If you completely lift off the throttle pedal during changes it helps smooth it out, but you have to concentrate all the time to get smooth gearchanges.

Quick shifts from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd are IMO nearly impossible to do smoothly.

We have two Puma's on the farm, both owned from new, both very low mileage. And they are both jerky to change gear.

I also personally don't think the ratios quite match up with the vehicles very well. Off road, I do love the low 1st crawl speed, that is wonderful.

But on the road the gearing just seems a bit mismatched. 1st feels a little too low to pull away in sometimes. But they don't pull away in 2nd gear very well unless you slip the clutch.

I also find junctions or turning into an entrance the gearing is wrong. 3rd is too tall and will be on the verge of wanting to buck or stall. But 2nd seems to make the engine scream or feel like when you down shift you have driven into a wall, as you get so much engine braking.

You do acclimatise and it really isn't the end of the world. But when I jump into any other 5 speed Land Rover, you just don't have any gearing issues at all. And even my 89bhp 19j TD will happily pull away in 2nd gear better than the Puma's do.

14th May 2025 11:14am

Goldenballs

Member Since: 22 Apr 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 79

o4dn wrote:
Chicken Drumstick wrote:
The 6-speed is clunky on the Puma. I don't know if it would be better with a Td5? Would be interesting to see.

I know 6 gears sounds good, but do remember that the 6 speed box runs 1:1 in 5th gear, rather than 4th gear for 5 speed boxes. So you only really gain by having more non over drive gears.

I find the MT82 to be a much nicer gearbox to use than the R380 that I found notchy in pretty all the ones I tried/owned.

I agree. The MT82 is a bit more "normal". I know the R380 can be improved with slickshift etc, but its very agricultural.

14th May 2025 11:15am

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 899

Goldenballs wrote:
Chicken Drumstick wrote:
I'd say regular Puma seats are not as nice or comfortable as earlier Defender seats. Although, they would be an easy swap if you really wanted them. The optional seats are very nice, but not the regular ones.

Surely the second row seats have different chassis requirements? I can understand the front row being a direct swap, but the back?

Not sure I follow. Are you meaning 90 or 110? And do you mean the horrid forward facing rear seats on the 90's? If so, I wouldn't wish them on anyone. Horrific things IMO that are a complete PITA to get in or out of.

90's with forward facing rear seats have a different seat box in the tub (chassis is the same). But 90s of the same era without such seats use the regular seatbox as per the 1980s.

14th May 2025 11:16am

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