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Simo74



Member Since: 11 Jun 2024
Location: Bathurst
Posts: 2

Australia 2008 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Alaska White
Won’t start after new head
Hope for some help here,
I have 2.4 puma that overheated on me during a trip
After a tilt tray delivered the car home as I did not want to drive it with an issue I could not diagnose on the road, gave the radiator a flush, replaced the thermostat, and a test drive ended 15 mins later with the cooling system over pressurised, limped home with conclusion that it has blown a head gasket.
After a bit of research and detailed analysis of the manual I decided to replace the head gasket.
After the strip down and inspection of the head it had 3 cracks between the inlet and exhaust valves!,,,,
A new head later $$$$ following all directions on installing, new victor gaskets, new water pump, new MAF sensor, VCV valve on fuel pump……WONT START!,,
Just a touch of aero start and she fires up!!
Runs beautifully above 1k rpm and sounds great!
WONT IDLE or START off the key! Just a touch of starting fluid and fires straight up!

Thoughts and help
Post #1037111 11th Jun 2024 2:05pm
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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19729

United Kingdom 
Is the Crank position sensor connected and functioning?

Any DTC’s logged? Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧
Post #1037118 11th Jun 2024 2:20pm
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Simo74



Member Since: 11 Jun 2024
Location: Bathurst
Posts: 2

Australia 2008 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Alaska White
Yes it has functioning crank sensor as it will run fine over 1k rpm
Had a EGR flow code, cleared and has not poped up again

This has me perplexed
Post #1037195 12th Jun 2024 5:30am
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jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7750

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
Vcv try the old one agian. Cheers

James
110 XS Utility
130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making)
90 Puma Hardtop
Post #1037196 12th Jun 2024 6:48am
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andy63



Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 324

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 CSW Aintree Green
It sounds fuel related that's for sure.. Do you have a low pressure fuel pump in the tank..
Have you any means of checking if the rail pressure rises while cranking? I think that's, where I'd be concentrating my efforts..
Post #1037204 12th Jun 2024 8:26am
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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19729

United Kingdom 
Perhaps it’s a duff VCV out of the box, you never know. Rolling Eyes Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧
Post #1037223 12th Jun 2024 4:08pm
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bear100



Member Since: 22 Mar 2010
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1879

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
I’m sure Ive read somewhere about the injector fuel pipes having issues if reused?
Possibly air getting in?

I’ve had issues with a new VCV out of the box too 2016 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 TDV8
2010 110 XS Utility 2.4TDCI
2010 Range Rover Sport TDV8 (gone)
2007 Discovery HSE TDV6 (gone)
1993 110 csw 200 tdi (gone)
1994 90 HT 300 tdi (gone)
1994 discovery 300tdi (gone)
90 hybrid 3.5 v8 (gone)
Range rover bobtail 3.5 v8 (gone)
Post #1037236 12th Jun 2024 5:51pm
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Bulletbrindle



Member Since: 18 Apr 2024
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 1

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
Have you bled the fuel system?

Any do you have a way to clear all the DTCs? Mine refused to start after I replaced my VCV until I did that.

Good luck
Post #1037248 12th Jun 2024 9:05pm
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hornet



Member Since: 04 Jan 2010
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 344

[quote="Simo74"]Yes it has functioning crank sensor as it will run fine over 1k rpm
Had a EGR flow code, cleared and has not poped up again

I think you should definitely check the sensor as custom90 suggests, this sensor is essential when starting with starter. you can also start the engine easily by towing, but with the starter a sensor signal is important for starting the engine, which is why the engine turns at least one revolution with the starter until it starts, while it works without diversions when towing.
Post #1037278 13th Jun 2024 8:52am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16994

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
The camshaft position sensor is also critical when starting (since without a reading fro it the ECM cannot determine which stroke the engine is on), once the engine is running it is not used. I don't think you have a camshaft sensor fault though because I don't think it would fire at all if this one wasn't working.

It could be a weak signal from the crank position sensor such that the ECM is only picking up something recognisable above a certain engine speed, or it could be a fuel pump problem whereby there is insufficient pressure below a certain speed. It could be a VCV problem although I think this is actually less likely in this case. It could be that the PRV on the rail is leaking so that fuel rail pressure can only build up at higher engine speeds.

If I was investigating, the first thing I would be checking the fuel rail pressure when cranking, since this will help narrow down the problem.

Note that if the crank sensor is the problem I would expect normal fuel rail pressure when cranking, but the ECM won't be firing the injectors. If the PRV is leaking or the pump is faulty I'd expect low rail pressures and the ECM will be trying to fire the injectors.
Post #1037282 13th Jun 2024 9:45am
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andy63



Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 324

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 CSW Aintree Green
I was wondering about the camshaft sensor??
Ie.. If the engine is able to start without a signal from that.. Ie.. You give it some easy start and it randomly eventually fires as all the pots will be fueled.. The crankshaft sensor now sees it's running and away it goes...it no longer looks for a camshaft signal...
Is that possible, or must it see a camshaft signal to let it know which cylinder requires firing?? In the normal scheme of things I know that's the case.. But if you fuel all the cylinders with easy start... I don't know??
Post #1037284 13th Jun 2024 9:56am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16994

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I pondered that for a while. The engine will clearly start on ether becuase this requires no fuel to be injected. However I don't think that the ECM will ever try to fire the injectors until it can determine from both the camshaft and crankshaft sensors when to do so, I am pretty sure it won't randomly select one of the two cranks signals per cycle and try it on the off-chance it has the right one, that would be an odd strategy. It would also suggest that with a failed camshaft sensor you'd still have a 50% chance of the engine starting when cranked, and you don't.

So I think it is reasonably safe to assume that with no camshaft position sensor signal the engine will never start, whatever means are applied.

It would be easy to test if anyone was willing to unplug the sensor and dump a load of Easy Start in the engine, but I am not going to do this to my engine if I can help it! Very Happy

I do think that the fact the engine can be started on ether and then will run on diesel most probably suggests either a very weak low-speed crankshaft sensor signal or a fuel pump problem. Clearly something isn't happening at cranking speeds that then starts to happen at rocket-fuel speeds, and I can't think of many other contenders.
Post #1037303 13th Jun 2024 1:42pm
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hornet



Member Since: 04 Jan 2010
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 344

Interesting, I had previously assumed that the crankshaft sensor was only required for "normal" starting with the starter motor. I often roll slightly down the hill in the morning and let the clutch come in, the engine starts immediately without any turns and without delay. So I bet it would do that without crankshaft sensor at all....

Edit:
I checked the WSM, "motor turns but does not start" mentions to check the IFS-Securityswitch.

Never ever heard of that!
Post #1037308 13th Jun 2024 2:10pm
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andy63



Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 324

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 CSW Aintree Green
blackwolf wrote:
I pondered that for a while. The engine will clearly start on ether becuase this requires no fuel to be injected. However I don't think that the ECM will ever try to fire the injectors until it can determine from both the camshaft and crankshaft sensors when to do so, I am pretty sure it won't randomly select one of the two cranks signals per cycle and try it on the off-chance it has the right one, that would be an odd strategy. It would also suggest that with a failed camshaft sensor you'd still have a 50% chance of the engine starting when cranked, and you don't.

So I think it is reasonably safe to assume that with no camshaft position sensor signal the engine will never start, whatever means are applied.

It would be easy to test if anyone was willing to unplug the sensor and dump a load of Easy Start in the engine, but I am not going to do this to my engine if I can help it! Very Happy

I do think that the fact the engine can be started on ether and then will run on diesel most probably suggests either a very weak low-speed crankshaft sensor signal or a fuel pump problem. Clearly something isn't happening at cranking speeds that then starts to happen at rocket-fuel speeds, and I can't think of many other contenders.

Yes makes sense..
I'll not volunteer either👍🤣
But if the op replaces his camshaft sensor and all is well again that would answer the question👍..
Post #1037310 13th Jun 2024 2:36pm
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andy63



Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 324

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 CSW Aintree Green
Hi hornet.. Possibly referring to the inertia cut off switch..
It disables starting while allowing the engine to crank..
I did try it as I was looking for a way to do a relative compression test.. So disconnected it
It does throw an error code but that's it..
Once reconnected starts as normal..
Post #1037311 13th Jun 2024 2:41pm
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