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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16879   
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This thread is worth a read if you haven't already done so.
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19th Feb 2024 7:46pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16879
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If you fit an LED "bulb" into an H4 lamp it will fail. Complete LED light units are ok and will pass the MoT test provided the beam pattern is compliant, however to be legal they must be properly approved and marked and if over the prescribed lumen level (see thread linked above) must have washers and a levelling system fitted.
The markings, washers and levelling system are not checked during the MoT and their absence will not lead to failure but that doesn't make them legal. |
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19th Feb 2024 10:50pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 19578
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Not seen this make before:
https://www.paddockspares.com/pm003-peac-l...drive.html Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧 |
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20th Feb 2024 12:09am |
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| Mo Murphy Member Since: 01 Jun 2008 Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts Posts: 2079 
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Unless your car was built prior to 1986 when the above legislation was adopted. It was not made retrospective. Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen. |
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20th Feb 2024 12:17am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16879
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^^ Absolutely, thanks Mo, I forgot to include that!
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20th Feb 2024 9:57am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16879
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Not legal post-1986 without washers. (Ooh, it's almost like Brendan's back)  |
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20th Feb 2024 10:02am |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 794  
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I am all in for regulation, but there are plenty modern cars out there that meet the requirements but have dazzlingly blinding dipped headlights.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43525525 So really they need to sort out these outdated regulations |
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20th Feb 2024 10:57am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16879
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I don't this that the regs are outdated, they are simply not enforced.
It is an offence to use a vehicle with headlights which dazzle or cause a nuisance to other road users, and it has been for a very very long time. It is an offence to have headlights on when stationary, except when stationary in a queue of traffic. Both are absolute offences, i.e., there is no defence to the offence, only possible mitigating circumstances. Yet many modern cars by design make it impossible not to dazzle, and not to have headlights which come on or remain on when stopped. Ergo those cars cannot legally be used on our roads. There is however simply no enforcement, and nobody seems to care any more. Modern lighting in particular is a triumph of science and technology over purpose. There is absolutely no need for headlights to be as bright as they are, and many good reasons for them being less so. |
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20th Feb 2024 12:10pm |
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| Mo Murphy Member Since: 01 Jun 2008 Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts Posts: 2079
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Agreed, nothing seems to be enforced these days. The roads are becoming a bit of a wild west !
Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen. |
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20th Feb 2024 12:26pm |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 794
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Would meeting the requirements not be part of the type approval? I guess modern lighting passes because the regulations are outdated. I don't know the details of the regulations but if the maximum power allowed is in watts, you have a problem
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20th Feb 2024 12:35pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16879
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Power and light output is one area where there is confusion, all the "heritage" UK legislation refers to Wattage, which is irrelevant in most modern lighting technologies. All current UK legislation is prediated on EC legislation which refers to Lumens which is relevant but almost impossible to comprehend without a brain the size of a planet.
I know how much power a 55W H4 bulb produces, but I have no idea how much light it produces. I know my LED lights produce 2300 lumens (each) on dip (and yes, they have washers  ) but I have no idea what the equivalent Wattage for that amount of light is. I know that the light output is more than a 55W H4 but the current they require (and hence the Wattage) is vastly less than a 55W H4.
Confusing! |
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20th Feb 2024 4:25pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 19578
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BW - I did think of that earlier like Brendan was back. It’s funny you said that, as I was thinking it when typing yesterday.
I agree with you regarding Lumens also, and it doesn’t just stop at Lumen output, but also colour temp as well. A lot of it involves comparing output charts in Lumens and output colour temp. Wattage and current draw means nothing really when it comes to LED when it comes to performance. Theoretically LED lighting on a vehicle, like households, should save power as the current draw is way less. In a vehicle, practically, I doubt you’d ever notice, there is a little less load on the alternator, and probably a negligible saving on fuel. I like the waterproofing of LED units and their reliability, they are faster reactivity wise. in particular brake lights which is a safety benefit. You then also say goodbye to wet and corroded bulb holders too, especially rear fog, reverse, and rear indicators, that get absolutely caked in wet mud and silt which inevitably gets into the rear of the light fixtures. I’m not sure how you could calculate compare any fuel savings, I know the Alternator free spools, presumably cuts in with a clutch like system when a load is present. It is possible to calculate current draw for a complete incandescent lighting system vs LED, it not really worth bothering with. The front sidelights if incandescent are 21w x2 Headlights 55w x2 Number plate light? Tail light? Brake lights and indicators aren’t worth counting as they are only momentary use, as well as fog and reverse. Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧 |
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20th Feb 2024 7:29pm |
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| Mo Murphy Member Since: 01 Jun 2008 Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts Posts: 2079
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Don't forget to factor in the power use of the light bar to supplement the LED headlamps main beam as many seem to consider it inadequate without. 😉
Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen. |
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20th Feb 2024 8:52pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 19578
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That is true, mind you, you can’t use main beam for five minutes hardly in this country.
More or less sidelight in bad / dull weather, or dipped 95% of the time. Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧 |
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20th Feb 2024 9:01pm |
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