 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > Lifespan of the vehicle |
 
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| lightning Member Since: 23 Apr 2009 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2287  
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Likely you are correct.
The model has now been out for three years, probably not far off that point. However l suspect that the main changes will be to the engine and transmission, as everything gradually goes electric. Currently there's no hybrid option on the Commercial variant and no fully electric option on any version. |
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25th Apr 2023 7:53pm |
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| MarkBrown Member Since: 03 Oct 2022 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 333 
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Best case is that they'll work and work until they don't, then get scrapped, like any ( some ) modern vehicles.
Worst case is that the third, fourth, fifth owner will buy one thinking that it's a great second hand buy and good value for money, only for the car to have so many electrical faults that it can't be fixed and after being auctioned off a few times, will then sit around waiting for attention which it won't get. Then get crushed. |
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25th Apr 2023 11:05pm |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 552 
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"Technology is the new rust" - that is a great way of describing the new issues facing the longevity of modern vehicles. Unfortunately, the more expensive the vehicle the greater number of technology based parts on board.
I have a 1993 90 with a 300tdi fitted. I cringe at electrical faults and I bought the vehicle for its lack of electrical components. Opening the wiring diagrams brings me out in a cold sweat and when researching any faults the usual first response is to check the earth. This progresses to basic (but often beyond me) checking of components and connections. Whilst my wiring diagram is like a complicated copy of a London underground map, can you imagine an actual wiring diagram for any high end modern vehicle, especially one with modern four wheel drive technology. The new complete wiring diagrams are more likely to be like the underground/metro/subway maps for every major city. Imagine the amount of earth points and connections to check. Imagine a brake somewhere in the wiring causing an intermittent fault - how many components, parts and sensors will be changed trying to find the fault - imagine the cost in parts and labour to find a broken wire? I am not a vehicle junkie and I dread having to replace my car as I cringe at the new vehicles volume of technology and sensor dependant systems. I tend to run my vehicles until they are no longer viable to keep, and unfortunately I can see that lifespan getting smaller and smaller. As has been said before in this thread - "so much for caring for the environment". Whilst our older Defenders may be a bit triggers broom, at least identifying the part to be replaced us relatively easy and cheap. In a domestic appliance kind of sebario, how many vacuum cleaners get mended compared to replaced. Whilst we are trying to be such an environmentally friendly race, we do seem to ignore the impact of our use of natural resources. I wonder if we will ever develop machines based on the longevity of the product? |
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26th Apr 2023 5:17am |
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| barbel jim Member Since: 12 Dec 2012 Location: Northants Posts: 1412 
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Regarding your last sentence, I think you’ll find you already do
Your tdi is approaching 30 years old… and you like a lot of us are not the target maker of JLR new sales. They like the rest of most manufacturers make zero money from producing simple reliable vehicles that you can fix yourself. Hence over recent years you need special tools for the simplest of jobs, never mind a code reader 
The other thing that’s not been mentioned is how the new car market is funded. A lot are leased pcp payments or financed over a period, very few are paid for outright. So in 3 years time after the agreement ends, many start the cycle again as they have to. |
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26th Apr 2023 8:24am |
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| LR Nuts Member Since: 10 Aug 2022 Location: UK Posts: 851 
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" ....very few are paid for outright......"
well my New Defender was! every car I have ever bought has been with cash. |
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26th Apr 2023 8:29am |
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| camelman Member Since: 27 Feb 2013 Location: Peak District Posts: 3334
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'Figures' suggest 91% of new vehicles bought on finance.
Drops significantly in over 55s though!! https://uk.motor1.com/news/353737/91-percent-cars-financed-year/  |
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26th Apr 2023 8:42am |
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| Birdy Member Since: 07 Oct 2011 Location: Côte d'Azur Posts: 855  
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"... every car I have ever bought has been with cash"
Everything I've ever bought has been with cash (yes, including apartments/houses). If I can't afford the cash, I can't afford it. Back to the plot, ten years has been about the average lifespan of the Series/Defenders I've had for over 50 years of LR ownership, my current 2.4 is on course having been purchased in 2011 and now with 150,000 miles on the clock. And, as soon as it becomes unreliable or the repair bills mount up, it'll go... But whereas I may get a reasonable price for a 10-year-old "Old" Defender, I fear a 10-year-old "New" Defender will be worthless. And with so many rolling off the production line, it'll never achieve "collectible" status. Peter Last edited by Birdy on 26th Apr 2023 9:00am. Edited 1 time in total |
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26th Apr 2023 8:58am |
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| LR Nuts Member Since: 10 Aug 2022 Location: UK Posts: 851
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FIO
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65393337 UK car parts giant Unipart may shift investment to US |
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26th Apr 2023 9:00am |
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| Moo Member Since: 01 Oct 2021 Location: Bath Posts: 1066 
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I tend to keep my cars a long time. I suspect I'll keep my Defender for ten years. I'm not worried about its value. I bought it to do a job. Eiger Grey MY23 D250 SE with bits. Known as Noddy.
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26th Apr 2023 9:54am |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 552
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I do agree with you on that point, however imagine if the chassis had been galvanised as standard. This is where I feel the Grenadier is missing a trick. How much faith would you have in a product if you felt the main structure was built to last 20+ years. |
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26th Apr 2023 11:57am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16947 
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It is highly unlikely that my 2007 Defender was intentionally built to last 20+ years, and in fact there is much to suggest that the only thought put into it was to make it last until the warranty expired (and there is not much evidence of any thought at all). A vehicle which was designed to last 20+ years would be a huge reassurance, and incredible - in the literal sense - if Land-Rover made it. Land-Rover doesn't want its customers to keep a vehicle for 20, or even 10 years, it wants you to buy a new one every couple of years (it's the classic "light bulb" scenario). Land-Rover may have some interest in the "second owner" sector since there is likely still to be some money to be made, but after that I doubt it cares what happens to its vehicles. If Grenadier are quoting 10 years as the representative life expectancy a privately-owned vehicle run by a competent caring enthusiast should be good for at least three times that. I also suspect that the feasibility of a "third owner" or later being able to maintain, service, repair, and continue to support a Grenadier is much greater than for most other contemporary vehicles, since at least some thought and intent has been directed to this. Ultimately time will tell, of course, and maintainability becomes irrelevant if our idiotic law-makers legislate serviceable vehicles off the road through misguided and possibly moronic vote-winning policies. |
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26th Apr 2023 12:49pm |
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| stevemfr Member Since: 18 Sep 2022 Location: Strasbpurg Posts: 102
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I am not quite so pessimistic on the longevity. Things change and making repairs on a L663 will be different than on a Series II. A hammer and a set of spanners and screwdrivers will no longer suffice (and this may be tough for some of us to accept as change in automotive technology in the last century was very gradual. Now, though we are on the vertical part of the hockey stick.). But on the other hand, many things have become easier. You no longer have to schlepp phone book sized workshop manuals around to understand how a diesel injection pump is re-installed and a good diagnostic system will often even tell you exactly what the problem is, making the actual repair something the proverbial trained monkey could handle. Body repairs are the same: at the moment everyone is still in awe of bonded aluminum panels and structural bits. In reality working with panel bond and structural rivets requires no magic whatsoever. Quite the contrary: anyone capable of following instructions and handling a caulk gun will be able to make repairs. And these repairs will likely be much better than the Series II repairs of old where an untrained monkey attacked the chassis armed with nothing more than an utter lack of skill and a stick welder. Even items such as specialty tools have come way down in price due to CNC machining. And who knows where 3D metal printers will take us.
There is a reason that such a large number of Porsches or Land Rovers is still on the road 50 years on, and that is people like us. Enthusiasts. And as long as we are around and have a will to keep or Defenders on the road, there will be people who find ways to help us make that happen. Or you make it happen yourself. Which is exactly what happened to us (at GAP)(lots of happenings in those last sentences ). If, on the other hand, everyone goes electric and diesel/petrol prices go through the roof, then maybe there won't be so many Defenders left in 50 years. Unless someone comes up with something like an electric conversion... 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr, P38, and 2 L322s, 2 FL1s and a L663 on the way |
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26th Apr 2023 5:29pm |
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| LR Nuts Member Since: 10 Aug 2022 Location: UK Posts: 851
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Richard, above, did a TV program named Vintage Voltage. Converting cars to electric using Teslar motors.
Go Google |
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26th Apr 2023 5:50pm |
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| BrickBox Member Since: 05 Oct 2021 Location: Wales Posts: 636  
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All I can think of is anything 300TDI and before will be absolutely fine with being able to run on vegetable oil or worse. 2008 2.4 110 Utility XS.
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26th Apr 2023 9:03pm |
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