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custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19560

Failed prop UJ.

Rather than going

on another posters thread I thought I would create my own thread.
Recently I've have been getting a vibration over the last few months, and lately a transmission rotational shudder.

Checked the obvious, inc UJ's and wondered about wheel balancing also.

Couldn't see anything wrong with the UJ's, and I checked them well until I got the rear off and found the following:

The grease nipple was also missing on this UJ, and I'm not sure how long that has been for.
So I'm in the process of replacing them very shortly, I'll do the front asap when I get around to it also.

The failed UJ is the furthest rear, rear prop to rear diff and likely explains why the rear diff pinion oil seal has began to leak.

I have also found a UJ nipple missing on the front prop, nearest the transfer box.

So the moral of the story is at least check that all three grease nipples on each of your prop shafts are present, and if they are that they are greased too.
If you can't grease properly, take them off and do it.

Servicing is all very well, but if they aren't accessible to get a grease gun on they will often be left and overlooked.

It's been quite interesting lately to read up all about them, how they work and how to replace UJ's etc as it's all new to me.

I had the vibration issue etc start after fording a stream on a road that was about 1ft plus deep back in early Feb.
And in light of the failed UJ location and missing grease nipple it must have filled with water!

Also had the handbrake drum off, and all is looking quite good there with the shoe wear etc and an ideal chance to give the drum a clean up.
It was cleaner and less rubbish in there than I expected there to be to be honest.

Hoping to get the new UJ's for the rear prop at the weekend or by this time next week and will repeat for the front too.
I'm glad I looked I took up, viewed videos online and listened to all,the advice on here etc as it would be all to easy to not mark reference points and put them out of phase.
Namely the flange to yoke orientation.

Should I again mark reference points and remove the slider section? Whilst it's off clean and re-grease as I have the opportunity? Or leave well alone and just re-grease using grease nipple?
I have some nice Castrol Lithium grease ready to go of suitable spec.

Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧

14th May 2018 7:18pm

Pilgrimmick

Member Since: 16 Nov 2015
Location: Highlands
Posts: 581

You can strip them and clean the old grease off, but unless you have been using it in deep water etc there is no need usually. If you do make sure you mark them and reassemble them in line or you are heading for a vibration nightmare!
I would just change the UJ, and grease them.

As the saying goes, 'Grease is a cheap mechanic". 80" 1948
Lightweight V8
Bowler Tomcat
130 Station wagon
90 300tdi
(Santana PS10 pick up)
Range Rover L322 (Ful fat)

14th May 2018 10:26pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19560

Oh yes, I've read a lot about people not keeping the flanges to prop aligned and the slider splines etc and havin lots of vibration problems etc due to knocking balance out.

I don't go wading or anything, so on this occasion I might leave the sliders alone. Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧

14th May 2018 10:39pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16868

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

The problem is not so much one of balance but rather that the Hooke's joint is not a constant velocity joint. This means that given a constant angular velocity on the input shaft, the output will be accelerating and decelerating twice per revolution. A propshaft with two Hooke's joints has them phased so that the fluctuations induced by the first UJ are then counteracted and smoothed out by those of the second.

The problem becomes more complex if the joints are articulated to unequal angles and/or if the flanges are not parallel, in which cases the UJ spiders are offset by a certain amount to compensate for this.

If the splined sliding joint is misaligned then the inherent self compensation of the two joints is lost and vibration is inevitable.

15th May 2018 12:09am

NickMc

Member Since: 01 Oct 2014
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1568

I find most of the time it’s the cheap UJ being fitted to “save money” or some numbnut has fitted it with a hammer in a dirty mangled end and bent the Yolk. If yours is missing the grease nipples I’d be suspicious someone’s had their mitts at it before.

I’ll not even get into them being fitted upside down or even the wrong prop altogether

It’s got to the stage now when you take the labour and the cost of quality UJs you can replace the whole prop and give them a 2 year guarantee for less in this throw away world.

15th May 2018 12:23am

windy81

Member Since: 14 Mar 2018
Location: North Wales
Posts: 311

blackwolf wrote:
The problem is not so much one of balance but rather that the Hooke's joint is not a constant velocity joint. This means that given a constant angular velocity on the input shaft, the output will be accelerating and decelerating twice per revolution. A propshaft with two Hooke's joints has them phased so that the fluctuations induced by the first UJ are then counteracted and smoothed out by those of the second.

The problem becomes more complex if the joints are articulated to unequal angles and/or if the flanges are not parallel, in which cases the UJ spiders are offset by a certain amount to compensate for this.

If the splined sliding joint is misaligned then the inherent self compensation of the two joints is lost and vibration is inevitable.

That gets full marks from me! That explains everything. Cheers

15th May 2018 8:36am

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19560

Blackwolf's knowledge on these matters has been invaluable.

I've seen a few videos online of them being smashed about with a hammer, namely b*itpart videos.

One question I do have, is the Genuine grease nipples I have en route namely as spares are I think 45 degrees.
And these are the type used on the UJ's.

However, the slider grease nipples are 90 degrees. There shouldn't be any issues with changing over to the new ones should there?
Or, as they are present and correct and the slider nipples on both props are in perfect condition and not loose I may just leave them.

Makes me wonder with the loose grease nipples on the UJ's if they were loosened to grease in situ for access.
And then not re-tightened up to 8nm, or nipped up and left so loose you could spin them with you finger.

I'm just waiting to buy the UJ's and I need a bigger vice as well as I only have a Record 4".

Interesting also to see the other day the tip about the orientation of the circlips on a YouTube video I saw, with the machined side out. Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧

Last edited by custom90 on 15th May 2018 10:31pm. Edited 1 time in total

15th May 2018 12:00pm

L110CDL

Member Since: 31 Oct 2015
Location: Devon
Posts: 10491

Good you have got to the bottom of your problem Steve

This is a very interesting thread and trying to take it all in, i will get there in the end

1996 Golf Blue 300Tdi 110 Pick up. Keeper.

Clayton.

15th May 2018 9:19pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19560

Just been waiting on a pack of 3/8" washers that arrived today to get the handbrake drum aetc all back on.

Been out just a short test run with diff locked and FWD and all the issues I had are completely gone!
So that UJ was the complete culprit all along.

At least I'm mobile again now, so long as just very local and take it very easy.
Hoping to have the rear prop .UJ's fitted by this time next week and repeat on the front after that.

Giving them a good clean up too.

Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧

16th May 2018 2:51pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19560

UJ's arrived, ready to crack on and the pathetic circlip pliers. (Were cheap ones) broke.

Funny how each set of tips I used broke too, so isn't my fault.

Better quality set arriving shortly, will come in use for other things anyway.

Always something!

Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧

21st May 2018 5:17pm

NickMc

Member Since: 01 Oct 2014
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1568

Get the clip moving in the groove first before trying to remove it

gentle use of the persuader and a screwdriver

21st May 2018 5:30pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19560

Indeed, these things were only about £4 one of those multihead Rolson things so was to be expected. I’ve got them well soaked in WD40 also Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧

21st May 2018 5:36pm

NickMc

Member Since: 01 Oct 2014
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1568

Sometimes hard to get one out when someone pushes one side in hard against the circlip and doesn’t even it out after

21st May 2018 5:39pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19560

Ah yes, good point.
Might pay to try and push the UJ cup inwards a little to free the circlip up a bit.
I've cleaned it all up perfectly, it's just tight.

Never the less, the circlip pliers are useless anyway.

Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧

21st May 2018 6:10pm

zsd-puma

Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black

tapping around circumference the yoke with a 'small' hammer will often shock them free. Obviously not so much you damaged the yoke, we're not talking about belting the life out of it with a lump hammer.

Warming it up with a blow torch also helps loosen the clips - doesn't matter about damaging the seals on the old UJ.

I've found that while with most tools, cheap ones last ok for DIY use, none of the cheap small circlip pliers seem much cop. either the tips snap or they don't have the right profile on the tips so the clip slips off as soon as you try to use them.

21st May 2018 6:15pm

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