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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 5145

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Doubts Over 2019 Land Rover Defender Comeback

Maybe a re-hash of an earlier story...

"There arenít many vehicles that have the kind of history the Land Rover Defender has and its departure is indeed a sad sight. Not long after the last model has rolled out the assembly line there are already talks of a new model thatís some years away from now.

If the Defender is brought back it should arrive in 2019. However, discussions are underway for the off-road SUV and at this juncture it doesnít seem quite commercially feasible to bring on the next-gen model, according to Auto Evolution.

Land Rover is aiming for 100,000 sales per year and the estimated demand for the Defender is about half of that, so there are doubts surrounding its return.

There is also the issue of how the next model would be positioned. Land Rover has to keep the SUVís essential appearance to cater to fans of the nameplate, but there is also that desire to push the Defender upmarket due to the emergence of more luxury SUVs.

To be able to achieve more volume sales and manage a polished luxury aesthetic, though the two goals arenít exactly mutually exclusive is a challenge, and if a solution cannot be reached then the Defender may either be pushed back past 2020 or the project may just be cancelled." Shocked Shocked Shocked

http://dailysunknoxville.com/doubts-over-2...k/92003541

Post #514094 14th Mar 2016 9:24am
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Pickles



Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3210

Australia 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green

Supacat, yes, this post & your previous post of 18/2 make good sense, but whether there's any truth in them, who knows,...Gerry McGovern?!!
However, I really do think that Landrover have made too many statements about "The Next Defender" for there not to be one, but jeez,... now 2019,...they're stringing it out a bit aren't they?
Pickles.

Post #514383 14th Mar 2016 9:45pm
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Stacey007



Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 2409

United Kingdom 

Judging by the LR stand at the Geneva show they need something and need it quickly !!


It was poor with a capital P, the Discovery looked so old next to other makes now, the RR didn't even look that special.


All the show's I have been to including the country shows in the UK its always the Defender that people look at !!

Post #514482 15th Mar 2016 9:35am
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discomog



Member Since: 09 May 2015
Location: Notts/Lincs Border
Posts: 645

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

I was going to reply in exactly the same way as Tim (Morepower) as I too believe that JLR have now exitted the commercial market. The commercial world (the 4x4 sector) is now dominated by the likes of Ranger, Amorak, Isuzu, Mitsu, Nissan and Toyota. To reach their minimum target of 100,000 units pa they are going to have to find an additional 80,000 vehicles in what would appear to be a very mature market. It would not surprise me if we have seen the last of the Defender. You only have to look at the worldwide success of LR and ask the question why have they been so good at exporting to markets like the States - Luxury is the answer. Many markets, including China want to buy luxury goods from Britain because of the hype that surrounds the brand. I just don't see a commercially biased, low priced vehicle appealing to those overseas markets.

There are times, unfortunately, when we have to pull the pin on things and I believe the pin was pulled and thrown away in January. Big Cry Santorini 90XS SW
Discovery Sport
Morgan Plus 8

Post #514488 15th Mar 2016 9:58am
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Morepower



Member Since: 08 Jan 2013
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 446

New Zealand 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey

The market is there... Just look at Thailand... Nearly everyone has a "pickup"... The problem is the demographic... Your customer spending £100,000+ wants to feel special... That's why LR are breaking the "Brand" up... Range Rover, Discovery etc etc... the problem lies with the Defender... Do they go all out for the commercial market... Which means putting the thing together properly, having a 3/4/5 year warranty covering everything up 100000 miles etc etc... Or build a SUV that looks a bit like a Defender if you squint, Will probably never carry anything heavier than a full load from Ikea (insert similar) and will be replaced every 2/3 years as a fashion statement...

It's a no brainer if your in marketing...

Tim It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse...

Post #514778 16th Mar 2016 5:58am
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Muddybigdog



Member Since: 11 Apr 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 376

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Zambezi Silver

IMHO it seems that JLR doesn't have a clue what to do next in regards to a defender replacement, especially after the reaction to the DC100 "eye wart". Plus the nostalgia of the public outpouring of love on the dearly departed Defender range. JLR now see there is huge love and potential for a defender type vehicle, but they appear to be totally on the back foot, I ask where are the test mules? where is the design "click bait"? Why are JLR pushing back launch dates by years not months, my guessing that pencil has only just started to his the paper, after the public outpouring of love of our trusted steeds. Puma 90 XS - (Welly - ideal for Mud, Water and dealing with the deep ****)
D3 - 2.7 S (Sold)
Freelander 2 HSE -

Post #514788 16th Mar 2016 7:42am
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shaggydog



Member Since: 12 Aug 2012
Location: Kent
Posts: 3207

United Kingdom 1991 Defender 110 200 Tdi USW Arles Blue

^^ I think your quite right.

I have a feeling the reason nothing has been leaked is because nothing has been done Laughing Running Restoration Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/post323197.html#323197

Self confessed mileage hunter Very Happy

Post #514901 16th Mar 2016 12:49pm
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Petronius4



Member Since: 07 Oct 2015
Location: Bucks
Posts: 74

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

Morepower wrote:
I would be very surprised if LR ever build another commercial vehicle... It just doesn't fit their market demographic... We may see a new 'Defender'... However I feel it'll be a lifestyle toy... Built as a feeder to the more expensive LR/RR products... Sort of a LR light class... Pricing will be an issue... Too high and it'll take away sales of the Evoke/Disco sport and too low and it will de-value the brand....
LR are all about image and sales... A few keen enthusiasts like ourselves don't make up much of a market...Especially when you consider that, even with commercial sales of the 'Current' Defender. LR struggled to make more than 20000 a year in sales...
I, like everyone on here would love to see a new LR that follows the tradition of a utility workhorse capable of just about going anywhere... However, I don't see it actually happening unfortunately..

Tim


100% agree. I've said it before..... expect a modern day 'Suzuki Santana' complete with surf board and ski accessories... Laughing -------------------------------
👲🏻 1986 ex-Military 90 NAD 2.5 Soft Top. Sold
🇬🇧 2015 Defender 90 - Ripon Landrover Heritage 006

Post #514928 16th Mar 2016 2:06pm
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Wild Card 90



Member Since: 03 Dec 2014
Location: Gerlingen
Posts: 851

England 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Indus Silver

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic44952.html


Question Shocked Rolling Eyes Whistle Well they havenīt completely forgotton where theyīve come from.......... 1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW,
2012 2.2 90 SW,
2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma
Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs,
Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons

Post #514957 16th Mar 2016 3:37pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 5145

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Realistically a production model would reach past 2020

http://dailysunknoxville.com/2019-land-rov...w/92003913

"Word has it that the closest weíll be having a Defender return is 2019, though realistically a production model would reach past 2020.

At this point Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) is mulling over how it would return and whether it is financially viable to do so. As per an Auto Evolution report the sales target set for the future comeback is 100,000 annually. Right now the demand is estimated at about 50,000 units per year, so thatís too much to ask for right now.

But demand can change; for instance just look at the Ford Bronco so many years after its demise. While there are talks that the Defender would go upmarket to contend with a growing luxury SUV market, it would be more judicious to retain the fundamental design of the Defender instead of positioning it so close to the Land Rover Discovery and Range Rover.

Seeing that this is just the preliminary stages of discussions, plenty can change over the next few years leading up to its return. The project may just end up being scrapped for all we know."

Post #516354 21st Mar 2016 9:50am
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22900013A



Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 2359

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green

^^^ I am not in the least bit surprised. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"

Post #516507 21st Mar 2016 6:35pm
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Pickles



Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3210

Australia 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green
Re: Realistically a production model would reach past 2020

Supacat wrote:
http://dailysunknoxville.com/2019-land-rov...w/92003913

"Word has it that the closest weíll be having a Defender return is 2019, though realistically a production model would reach past 2020.

At this point Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) is mulling over how it would return and whether it is financially viable to do so. As per an Auto Evolution report the sales target set for the future comeback is 100,000 annually. Right now the demand is estimated at about 50,000 units per year, so thatís too much to ask for right now.

But demand can change; for instance just look at the Ford Bronco so many years after its demise. While there are talks that the Defender would go upmarket to contend with a growing luxury SUV market, it would be more judicious to retain the fundamental design of the Defender instead of positioning it so close to the Land Rover Discovery and Range Rover.

Seeing that this is just the preliminary stages of discussions, plenty can change over the next few years leading up to its return. The project may just end up being scrapped for all we know."

"Ford Bronco"?...We used to own one of them, a 1985 XLT, 351 Cleveland V8, C6, 9", ...nice vehicle, used to be a lot of them on Aussie roads, getting scarce now though.
Pickles.

Post #516601 21st Mar 2016 9:13pm
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dolomite



Member Since: 05 Apr 2014
Location: pitesti
Posts: 37

http://www.rovertune.co.uk/general/new-def...se-in-2018

Post #522080 8th Apr 2016 1:31am
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Ramajama



Member Since: 28 Jul 2016
Location: Heartland
Posts: 32

United States 
Re: Doubts Over 2019 Land Rover Defender Comeback

Supacat wrote:
Maybe a re-hash of an earlier story...

"There arenít many vehicles that have the kind of history the Land Rover Defender has and its departure is indeed a sad sight. Not long after the last model has rolled out the assembly line there are already talks of a new model thatís some years away from now.

If the Defender is brought back it should arrive in 2019. However, discussions are underway for the off-road SUV and at this juncture it doesnít seem quite commercially feasible to bring on the next-gen model, according to Auto Evolution.

Land Rover is aiming for 100,000 sales per year and the estimated demand for the Defender is about half of that, so there are doubts surrounding its return.

There is also the issue of how the next model would be positioned. Land Rover has to keep the SUVís essential appearance to cater to fans of the nameplate, but there is also that desire to push the Defender upmarket due to the emergence of more luxury SUVs.

To be able to achieve more volume sales and manage a polished luxury aesthetic, though the two goals arenít exactly mutually exclusive is a challenge, and if a solution cannot be reached then the Defender may either be pushed back past 2020 or the project may just be cancelled." Shocked Shocked Shocked

http://dailysunknoxville.com/doubts-over-2...k/92003541


I've been watching the Defender developments. I've had 2 Jeep Wranglers and I want something different if I go back to that market segment. Which I would in a heartbeat if Defender is done right and sells in the US.

I assume JLR has some reasonably smart people working for it, right? It doesn't take a Rocket Surgeon to see what the Defenders big competition will be. Jeep Wrangler and Wranlger Unlimited, and it could even cross over to the "true" SUV world in the longer wheelbase model.
It's an absolute no brainier to build an up to date Defender, especially if they qualify to sell in the US.
My local salesperson was briefed at a meeting earlier this year about the Defender and as far as they know, it's coming but they won't say when. If JLR sticks to what they told them, they should offer at least 3 wheelbases and configurations. (One two door and two four door models.)
Now they also need to offer the Defender in a wide range of trim options, from basic rugged to full Lux.That would allow them to compete extremely well with the US domestic market...AKA Jeep and some lux SUVs. Wranglers are not cheap anymore. Defender could compete price wise.
Jeep sells around 220,000 Wranglers in the US and Canaduh alone. That's a huge untapped, uncontested market. People in the US love their Jeeps but there are plenty who want something different. You see Jeeps at every stop light...YAWN!

Oh, they'll get their sales projections, they know they will. They also know that's IF they get it right and they HAVE to get the Defender right. If they do, it'll sell very, very well.

One thing that has been said in the articles I've read, but my salesman didn't mention, is that they are going to make the 4 door truck version as well. I've also read, and taken with a grain of salt, that the truck version is not coming to the US. Makes me wonder if it's true though since there was no mention of it from my salesman. Now this would be a YUGE mistake by JLR and I don't believe they would be so silly as to not sell the truck version in the US.
Four door trucks are EXTREMELY popular in the US. Midsize four door trucks are even making a comeback. JEEP is even building a.....you guessed it...a four door Wrangler truck. Yet another vehicle Defender could compete well with.

But I get it...they are going into a US market with a brand new vehicle cause they couldn't sell their old one here so there was no real reason for refinement and updates. They are going against an extremely refined and extremely popular competitor. So obviously there is a huge pressure to get the new Defender right. And new model development is very very very costly.
So there are big pros and cons.

I think JLR should have faith, I think they should take their time, get it right and build it. It's their most iconic and legendary model for Petes sake! Bow down And Damnit! Bring the four door truck version to the US. They would be handsomely rewarded. Thumbs Up

Post #551777 28th Jul 2016 4:49am
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9603

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

That's it, I'm going to follow others speculative lead, rush off to my local dealership and place a deposit forthwith. Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter

Wonder if they got their money back or will leave it for the 7 odd years? Bow down

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic12525....osit+dc100 If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

Post #551822 28th Jul 2016 8:28am
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