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CR



Member Since: 28 Jan 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 864

Ireland 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Santorini Black

what is a "Rocket Surgeon" ? Rolling with laughter

Post #551943 28th Jul 2016 6:21pm
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Joe the Plumber



Member Since: 18 Dec 2013
Location: Midlands
Posts: 237

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HT Fuji White
Re: Doubts Over 2019 Land Rover Defender Comeback

It's an American Brain Scientist, I assume....

Post #551957 28th Jul 2016 7:33pm
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Cupboard



Member Since: 21 Mar 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2548

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 HT Corris Grey

If it was a Land Rover Wrangler I certainly wouldn't want it.
Wranglers are great toy vehicles, but they're not working vehicles - just look at the craptacular payload and towing ratings.

Post #551999 28th Jul 2016 9:56pm
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tyrannosauROSS



Member Since: 24 Jun 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 68

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Chawton White

Just my two pence...

I did a Land Rover off road day in October/November last year.

The guy who was my instructor turned out to be one of Land Rovers top drivers. He was a chap in his late 60's and was off to Barbados a few weeks after I met him to do the press launch for the new Jaguar Range Rover thingy! He was very modest and was one of the guys Land Rover used to send to do the Camel Trophy support.

We got chatting and he said that he had seen the new Defender... and driven it.
Three of them, Land Rover drivers, had taken the final design from one part of the factory to the other under a gazebo type thing to have it signed off by the board and to get their feedback on what they thought.

He said it looked great. Very different to what we now call a Defender, but he said he was impressed.
He said it was no longer a spanner in a field jobby, it had the latest electronics on it and was generally what we would consider a modern car. But he said he was impressed.

Im hopeful... Land Rover are not stupid, I believe you will be able to buy a basic model with no bells and whistles. But I also think that Special Vehicles will also start to sell +£60,000 Defenders like some of the third parties currently do. It would be silly if they didn't... they currently do with other models so why not with a modern Defender.
They will offer the Defender in multiple body types and styles otherwise it will no longer be a Defender and with modern production techniques this will be easier than before.
It will be their most capable off road vehicle to date, at the moment arguably a Range Rover is more capable than a Defender, particularly at a river crossing!!!
If you look at the things Bowler are doing with their new vehicle, and yes i know it only has Defender panels on it because they are easy to work with, cheap and simple in construction, but I believe we could see something similar coming out of the LR factory. Obviously less aggressive and race focused, but given the tight relationship that Bowler has with Land Rover, you cannot tell me that Land Rover are unaware of what those boys are creating... it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of JLR R&D happens at Bowler or Bowlers R&D is partially funded by JLR.

Anyway... my prediction is we will see the new Defender at one of the BIG European motor shows end of this year/ beginning of 2017. And see production at the end of 2018.

Fingers crossed!

Post #552007 28th Jul 2016 10:23pm
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davew



Member Since: 02 Jan 2012
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 674

England 1990 Defender 90 V8 Petrol PU Auto Rioja Red

There is no replacement Defender and there are no plans to build one now or in the future. JLR will keep the speculation going to maintain interest in the brand but the reality is that the Defender was dropped because it didn't fit into their business model and that hasn't changed. There will continue to be the occasional "leak" from "inside sources" that hint at a launch date but the reality is that it's just a cynical marketing ploy.

I'm not sure what the salesman in the US was smoking but you can be pretty sure that if JLR were planning a new Defender then salesmen at the dealerships wouldn't know any of the details until a month or so before the launch, if then. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

Post #552010 28th Jul 2016 10:31pm
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Pickles



Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2823

Australia 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green

As usual, nothing new, just "myth & hearsay" in all of these articles.
But, one thing, these articles are quoting "current demand for Defender is 50,000 units p.a."???!!!,...where do they get that figure from?, last yearly figures I saw, apart from the last "rush", were around 14/15000 p.a.
And I see they're quite correctly looking at a market of 100,000p.a....and so they should if Evoque/Disco sales etc are to be any guide.
Like I said, No one knows a thing.
Pickles.

Post #552027 28th Jul 2016 11:31pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 6469

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

I have to say that I think davew has it right, I really doubt that there will be a replacement Defender ever.

There may be a vehicle called a Defender, but if there is it will be so far removed from the last Defender that it won't be the same at all.

I am not really convinced that there is a market for a vehicle that is what the Defender was any more, because the Defender - or rather the original Land-Rover - was intended to be a vehicle that could do pretty well anything that a vehicle could do at the time. With the huge change in vehicle useage, this is no longer possible for any vehicle. The specialist vehicles have become more specialised, and the generic vehicles more generic, and it is no longer possible to marry the two together.

To be a serious contender in a specialised market the vehicle will be highly purposed and built in very small numbers, and I doubt that a 'platform' aimed at the mass-production generic market could do this. In the future, the people who need a rugged vehcile, whether it is for a cherry picker or a trans-Darien expedition, will probably have to use something like a Unimog.

If there is a replacement Defender it will probably look the same as the bland and boring current Discovery (which is turn looks so like every other SUV that I don't even notice them) but with a bit of Rambo-esque plastic bling to make it stand out on the school run. Big Cry

Of course I may be completely wrong, and a wonderful new Defender may be launched next week, after all that what the friend of my granny's cousin, who used to work with a bloke from a North American JLR dealer who was consulted about this back in 1974, said!

Post #552104 29th Jul 2016 10:26am
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Ramajama



Member Since: 28 Jul 2016
Location: Heartland
Posts: 19

United States 

CR wrote:
what is a "Rocket Surgeon" ? Rolling with laughter


It's a guy that does rocket surgery... Mr. Green

As opposed to a brain scientist.
C'mon, everybody knows this.

Post #552154 29th Jul 2016 2:09pm
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Ramajama



Member Since: 28 Jul 2016
Location: Heartland
Posts: 19

United States 

tyrannosauROSS wrote:
Just my two pence...

I did a Land Rover off road day in October/November last year.

The guy who was my instructor turned out to be one of Land Rovers top drivers. He was a chap in his late 60's and was off to Barbados a few weeks after I met him to do the press launch for the new Jaguar Range Rover thingy! He was very modest and was one of the guys Land Rover used to send to do the Camel Trophy support.

We got chatting and he said that he had seen the new Defender... and driven it.
Three of them, Land Rover drivers, had taken the final design from one part of the factory to the other under a gazebo type thing to have it signed off by the board and to get their feedback on what they thought.

He said it looked great. Very different to what we now call a Defender, but he said he was impressed.
He said it was no longer a spanner in a field jobby, it had the latest electronics on it and was generally what we would consider a modern car. But he said he was impressed.

Im hopeful... Land Rover are not stupid, I believe you will be able to buy a basic model with no bells and whistles. But I also think that Special Vehicles will also start to sell +£60,000 Defenders like some of the third parties currently do. It would be silly if they didn't... they currently do with other models so why not with a modern Defender.
They will offer the Defender in multiple body types and styles otherwise it will no longer be a Defender and with modern production techniques this will be easier than before.
It will be their most capable off road vehicle to date, at the moment arguably a Range Rover is more capable than a Defender, particularly at a river crossing!!!
If you look at the things Bowler are doing with their new vehicle, and yes i know it only has Defender panels on it because they are easy to work with, cheap and simple in construction, but I believe we could see something similar coming out of the LR factory. Obviously less aggressive and race focused, but given the tight relationship that Bowler has with Land Rover, you cannot tell me that Land Rover are unaware of what those boys are creating... it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of JLR R&D happens at Bowler or Bowlers R&D is partially funded by JLR.

Anyway... my prediction is we will see the new Defender at one of the BIG European motor shows end of this year/ beginning of 2017. And see production at the end of 2018.

Fingers crossed!

This is great to hear! Thanks for sharing that! Sounds exactly what I was preaching on about in my first post. I'd be very excited to see it come out in the time frame you mentioned. That's about the time I'm wanting to get a new vehicle. Only thing is, being an 'Merican and all, I'd love to have a V8. Not a total deal breaker, if the Defender is all I hope, but I may have to see if Special Vehicles will provide us with a SC 5.0 V8. If I think it's really worth the price of admission, I'd pay it.
And I sure hope they bring a truck version to the US. Is that all too much to ask? Whistle

GRRR...lots of wait and see I guess.


Last edited by Ramajama on 29th Jul 2016 3:07pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #552158 29th Jul 2016 2:22pm
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Ramajama



Member Since: 28 Jul 2016
Location: Heartland
Posts: 19

United States 

blackwolf wrote:
I have to say that I think davew has it right, I really doubt that there will be a replacement Defender ever.

There may be a vehicle called a Defender, but if there is it will be so far removed from the last Defender that it won't be the same at all.

I am not really convinced that there is a market for a vehicle that is what the Defender was any more, because the Defender - or rather the original Land-Rover - was intended to be a vehicle that could do pretty well anything that a vehicle could do at the time. With the huge change in vehicle useage, this is no longer possible for any vehicle. The specialist vehicles have become more specialised, and the generic vehicles more generic, and it is no longer possible to marry the two together.

To be a serious contender in a specialised market the vehicle will be highly purposed and built in very small numbers, and I doubt that a 'platform' aimed at the mass-production generic market could do this. In the future, the people who need a rugged vehcile, whether it is for a cherry picker or a trans-Darien expedition, will probably have to use something like a Unimog.

If there is a replacement Defender it will probably look the same as the bland and boring current Discovery (which is turn looks so like every other SUV that I don't even notice them) but with a bit of Rambo-esque plastic bling to make it stand out on the school run. Big Cry

Of course I may be completely wrong, and a wonderful new Defender may be launched next week, after all that what the friend of my granny's cousin, who used to work with a bloke from a North American JLR dealer who was consulted about this back in 1974, said!


We have a Disco Sport and it looks nothing like every other SUV. It's breaks necks on the daily. Now the F-Pace....that looks like every other SUV in its class. I think they all conspired to make the same vehicle...LOL! I think the new "big" Disco will look great as well and work in the market its intended for.

However, I think you're right about the new Defender. Purists will probably not like it, probably even hate it. But the world has moved on since original Defender came out. As an admirer of the outgoing Defender, I'm still very excited for a new one and there's going to be plenty more like me.

And to Cupboards remark. I'm not saying a new Defender would be a Wrangler clone. However, it could and probably will naturally compete with them if the new Defender truly is the most capable ever. Since one of the new configurations should be a 90, it's gonna be in the same arena as a two door Wrangler...even the Wrangler Unlimited. Until we see it, we don't know how much of a "working vehicle" which is a wide description, it will be. But sadly, those working days, at least those days on the farm, are long behind it anyway....but we'll see.
But it should have some capability, it has to. If at least one of the models can't tow at least 7K, it's not going to be any use to me.

New days, new markets, new vehicles.

We just don't know right now, but it's still fun to cuss and discuss it. Thumbs Up

I kinda like our Disco Sport..

Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge

Post #552165 29th Jul 2016 2:47pm
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 4467

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

After all what is said here, I do hope that for whatever new Land Rover truck JLR will eventually launch in the coming years they will not use the name "Defender". It will be another €box, there is no other way in todays world of modern production and modern safety requirements. It won't have anything to do anymore with the original Land Rover which in the end evolved into the Defender. Keep the Defender name high spirited, strengthen the legend year by year, but don't water it down by sticking it on a totally new modern truck which cannot have any resemblance with the 68 year old mecano cubes. Call it a Land Rover again, but with an entirely new model name.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K7HmDPhG3I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507

Post #552182 29th Jul 2016 4:28pm
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Happyoldgit



Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3369

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

Stick with the legend of failing driveshafts, rapidly wearing drive members and halfshaft splines, flaking screen frames and air con grilles, exploding hinge blocks, heater intakes with gaps big enough in the joint to get your fingers in, flaking powder coating on external bolt ons. corroding fastenings, failing egr valves, clunking rear diffs, rattling clutches and clutch slave cylinders that are a chore to replace.

The list goes on, just ask Caterham Rolling with laughter Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades.
Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW.

[Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc]

http://forums.lr4x4.com

I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic.

Post #552197 29th Jul 2016 5:29pm
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 4467

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

Mr Happy. Looked carefully at your list there. In almost 8 years and 83.000 Km, I indeed had the half shafts replaced, and the EGR once started making unusual noise, but that went away again....
As to the rest of the list, I do not know what that is all about. Whistle Cool
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K7HmDPhG3I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507

Post #552211 29th Jul 2016 6:23pm
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Happyoldgit



Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3369

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

Good for you, others do though Wink Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades.
Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW.

[Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc]

http://forums.lr4x4.com

I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic.

Post #552213 29th Jul 2016 6:31pm
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mk1collector



Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: huddersfield
Posts: 4529

England 2004 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey

ericvv wrote:
Mr Happy. Looked carefully at your list there. In almost 8 years and 83.000 Km, I indeed had the half shafts replaced, and the EGR once started making unusual noise, but that went away again....
As to the rest of the list, I do not know what that is all about. Whistle Cool
Eric


The thing is though, yours lives in a heated garage a doesn't come out when it's wet or windy and it also doesn't do any real work so it's more likely the ones that get worked will have these problems. Ray
My build thread
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic17615.html

Post #552223 29th Jul 2016 7:39pm
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