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Johnnyboxer



Member Since: 21 Aug 2015
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 27
United Kingdom 
I'm sure there may be a few other disappointed people, come the end of Defender production Shocked

Still, there's always a Ford Ranger, with the same engine Razz
Post #449351 26th Aug 2015 12:59pm
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Mr Fox



Member Since: 10 Sep 2011
Location: green & pleasant land
Posts: 1030
United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Keswick Green
m33ufo wrote:
bargain Smile


I believe Joe Pesci sums it up well in his memorable rant from Lethal Weapon 2 Mr. Green
Post #449354 26th Aug 2015 1:00pm
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Vintagepaul



Member Since: 20 Jan 2015
Location: Rye, East Sussex
Posts: 481
2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Santorini Black
The adventure 90 and 110 are the same price but the 90 gets the same power upgrade as the autobiography. (I think!) but the 110 does not.

Can't quite work out Land Rovers reasoning there as I would have thought that the bigger, heavier car would have needed the increased power more? Rolling Eyes
Post #449360 26th Aug 2015 1:05pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Re: ^ ^ ^
Venomator wrote:
It is highly unlikely it would be acceptable for Land Rover being unable to deliver because of their failure to deliver for reasons beyond their control for an FM event... Rolling Eyes


If only the contract was with JLR - it is not.

edited by mistake.

Last edited by Supacat on 26th Aug 2015 4:11pm. Edited 2 times in total
Post #449413 26th Aug 2015 2:57pm
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Vintagepaul



Member Since: 20 Jan 2015
Location: Rye, East Sussex
Posts: 481
2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Santorini Black
Just because they have a clause in the contract doesn't mean that a judge would find in their favour should it go to court. If the judge finds the clause unreasonable he can disregard it so clause or not the dealer could not be sure that they would win.

Also not great publicity for them should the court case get reported, I imagine that there are a fair few D2 members reading this thread that would steer well clear of Land Rover Cardiff.
Post #449424 26th Aug 2015 3:39pm
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Venomator



Member Since: 25 Aug 2014
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 2087
United Kingdom 
Re: ^ ^ ^
Supacat wrote:
yep - that why I said it was an extract not a full quote...and was it response to the statement that they had a contract which implied they were obligated to supply. I was pointing out that they have a perfectly valid get out clause.

Not the case, as I tried, clearly unsuccessfully, to make the point, the FM clause would be challengeable by any half competent lawyer, as a get out in the case of vehicle availability, as it is not a reasonable, or even valid FM clause... Thumbs Up

Supacat wrote:
If only the contract was with JLR - it is not, it's with the dealer so your argument is irrelevant.

I was not actually making an argument, simply pointing out the irrelevance of just quoting convenient extracts, when contracts are always taken in the round, whoever they may be with!... Whistle

Making your argument, about my non-argument, irrelevant in the extreme... Mr. Green  Rog... Mr. Green
The GREEN One...

MY2016 Urban Truck Build Thread - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic40548....al[/color]
Post #449430 26th Aug 2015 3:53pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Venomator wrote:
It is highly unlikely it would be acceptable for Land Rover being unable to deliver because of their failure to deliver for reasons beyond their control for an FM event... Rolling Eyes


If only the contract was with JLR - it is not.

and your response to this fact is?
Post #449431 26th Aug 2015 4:10pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Vintagepaul wrote:
Also not great publicity for them should the court case get reported, I imagine that there are a fair few D2 members reading this thread that would steer well clear of Land Rover Cardiff.


Not sure why it's the dealer's fault without getting a few more facts in? If the situation is exactly as reported above then the dealer is as much a victim of JLR as the OP.

Talk of solicitors and judges setting aside contract terms seems a little far-fetched at this stage.

If fundamentally JLR are going to make one less vehicle then someone has to miss out somewhere.

I'd be speaking to the LR pr guy on here to see if the initial facts are true and then if they were asking if I could have one of the press vehicles. Would make a good news story for JLR - pulling the iron out of the fire..
Post #449433 26th Aug 2015 4:20pm
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m33ufo



Member Since: 19 Jan 2008
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 1150
Wales 
Ryan (LR) has responded on the Customer Relations sub-forum and is investigating. An explanation and some clarity would be nice.
Post #449436 26th Aug 2015 4:33pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Thumbs Up good luck
Post #449439 26th Aug 2015 4:38pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Supacat wrote:
Speak to the pr guy on here first - just check the facts from the factory end to make sure the dealers not spinning you a line.


Ryan@LandRover wrote:
In order for me to comment, I would need to speak with your retailer and establish the reasons why your order was not placed with Land Rover.


and so it begins...
Post #449440 26th Aug 2015 4:43pm
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Venomator



Member Since: 25 Aug 2014
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 2087
United Kingdom 
Supacat wrote:
If only the contract was with JLR - it is not.

and your response to this fact is?

This is yet another irrelevance, as I pointed out in my last... Whistle

In any event, one can readily exchange JLR with Mr Dealer, or anyone else, the same principles will apply, simples... Thumbs Up

FM is a fairly restrictive, in legal terms, type of disastrous event, commonly referred to as 'Acts of God/Nature, or other major event wholly outside of the control of the parties. When included in any contract FM should, in any event, be clearly defined, such definition is generally done separately for clarity and not simply included within a convenience clause... Rolling Eyes

Force Majeure:
A typical list of force majeure events might include war, riots, fire, flood, hurricane, typhoon, earthquake, lightning, explosion, strikes, lockouts, slowdowns, prolonged shortage of energy supplies, and acts of state or governmental action prohibiting or impeding any party from performing its respective obligations under the contract. ([i]Courtesy of ContractStandards Dot Com) [/i]

As this clearly illustrates, quoting extracts is fraught with dangers and not recommended, as it can be misleading, especially without knowledge of the entire document... Thumbs Up
 Rog... Mr. Green
The GREEN One...

MY2016 Urban Truck Build Thread - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic40548....al[/color]
Post #449491 26th Aug 2015 7:26pm
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m33ufo



Member Since: 19 Jan 2008
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 1150
Wales 
I'll scan the T&C's tomorrow just for info.

But, the last thing I want is to resort to any kind of legal recourse.
Post #449499 26th Aug 2015 8:04pm
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Venomator



Member Since: 25 Aug 2014
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 2087
United Kingdom 
^ ^ ^
Very wise - it is a very expensive minefield out there... Thumbs Up

Let's just hope Ryan can resolve it amicably and sensibly for you... Mr. Green  Rog... Mr. Green
The GREEN One...

MY2016 Urban Truck Build Thread - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic40548....al[/color]
Post #449503 26th Aug 2015 8:14pm
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m33ufo



Member Since: 19 Jan 2008
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 1150
Wales 
Might give these guys a ring tomorrow...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...16/1936149
Post #449517 26th Aug 2015 9:03pm
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