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JOW240725

Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7873

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey

That all makes sense, LSA it is then! Best get saving

James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html
MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641
MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557
Instagram @suffolk_rovers

27th Feb 2017 10:12pm

Bristol 90XS

Member Since: 31 Oct 2010
Location: North of Bath
Posts: 223

Hi Pickles - I see your point but have to agree with James (JOW) here.

There are 4 LS3 engines available:

LS3 430bhp - £5,820
LS3 480bhp £6,320
LS3 515bhp £6,594
LS3 525bhp £6,900

So to go from 430bhp up to 525bhp engine its a cost of £1,080. Not a bad increase when you consider the cost of re-map for the 2.2tdci is around £500 for 45-50bhp. It would appear this is all achieved with an uprated camshaft and mapping of software.

Now the LSA engine:

556bhp from a supercharged engine with same uprated camshaft as above - £11,394.00

Thats £4,500 more for an additional 31bhp over and above the 525bhp LS3... not a great return for investment that one!!

Ive got a call with Wildcat tomorrow to see if I can have the 525 version and considering they put buy in bulk what price they can do it for me

Might delay the build though unless they can source camshaft and re-map themselves.

James

27th Feb 2017 10:22pm

Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3753

2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green

This is very exciting Jow.
Have you spoken to Wildcat about LSA?
I await further developments with LOTS of interest.
James, yes, I hear what you say,..I haven't read the power/torque graphs for the 525HP engine, so it would be interesting to see where peak power & torque is, relative to the choices available,...I wouldn't think that ya'd want too much up high, ya'd want it down low, which is where the LSA will shine. Like I've said these engines are the stock engine in our HSV Commodores,..ya never hear a complaint about them,...PLENTY of grunt, everywhere.
But hats off from me to both of you, whatever you do, because it's a BIG job, but I'm confident that from what I've seen from Twisted video clips etc, the end result is very "satisfying"!
I suppose what I'm saying is, if ya're spending 25-30 thousand pounds, another say 5K, relative to the overall cost, doesn't sound so bad, particularly over time, if your vehicle is a keeper.
Pickles.

Last edited by Pickles on 27th Feb 2017 10:34pm. Edited 1 time in total

27th Feb 2017 10:23pm

Bristol 90XS

Member Since: 31 Oct 2010
Location: North of Bath
Posts: 223

Im going to speak with Wildcat tomorrow to see what options there are.

I think I'm swaying towards the uprated LS3 just now.

James

27th Feb 2017 10:27pm

JOW240725

Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7873

Just for the record, I'm purely dreaming unfortunately

I will still be watching with much interest though

27th Feb 2017 10:57pm

Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3753

No worries!...& Same here, primarily because in Aus, although we're the "land of V8s", we're certainly NOT, the "Land of Defenders", so I don't even know anyone down here, who would have the knowledge to do such a conversion....which would need to be done "properly", which is the way I believe Wildcat/Twisted do it.
Pickles.

27th Feb 2017 11:52pm

mcma1

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2870

430 for drivability seems to the reason wildcat use it, the 525 has a rough idle, needs more attention. Honestly i would take the tried and tested install first and then add to it. My next priority is a roll cage

Andy

2014 Fuji 110 SW LS3
https://www.defender2.net/forum/post751233.html#751233

2014 Corris 110 SW
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic40056.html

My old Xtech 90 build..
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic15681.html

LS3 V8 build...
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic49051.html

28th Feb 2017 12:56am

Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3753

"Rough Idle"?..well yes, that is what I was talking about, not unusual with a more radical camshaft,....and not what you want in a Defender.
But, honestly, any LS3 would be good, it's just that if ya're gonna go that far, and it is a "long way" to get an LS3 in a Defender, it ain't much further to go LSA.
Pickles.

28th Feb 2017 2:09am

mcma1

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2870

I agree but I think in this case the limitations of the defender is the issue. It's still a barge, honestly when I first drove mine I thought wtf have I done! It's only because I am used to the RS6 performance and GTR, but then you realise it's about rolling speed in them, rumbling along, even with all the suspension, BBK etc it doesn't make that much difference to transform the defender into a machine that can use the 430hp, never mind 500! I spoke to Simon that owns Urban a good few times as he has sold a good view of the wildcats and he said the same, if you stand on it over and over it was break the defender, so I am giving it some respect although I have a few new noises in the past few weeks I need to investigate, but if it breaks at least it will highlight a weak spot... time for a spanner check! Andy

2014 Fuji 110 SW LS3
https://www.defender2.net/forum/post751233.html#751233

2014 Corris 110 SW
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic40056.html

My old Xtech 90 build..
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic15681.html

LS3 V8 build...
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic49051.html

28th Feb 2017 8:25am

Bristol 90XS

Member Since: 31 Oct 2010
Location: North of Bath
Posts: 223

Hi Andy,

Thanks again for the advice and guidance. Been trying o get hold of Oliver today but keep missing him.

Interesting guidance on the 430 drivability vs 525. I remember you said the 430 was better with the paddle shifts as it gave you more control. I don't want to say that its great you've done this first so you can find the weak points but I'm sure you'll find them soon. Ashcrofts are saying to replace the entire driveline which makes sense but I think probably like you I'll see how it goes first - unless if course you get a failure then I'll change that straight away!

Im used to driving c.400bhp petrol and diesel saloons so used to this sort of power but just not in a defender!!!

Thanks again,
James

28th Feb 2017 5:29pm

Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3753

Bristol, mate, you're gonna have a GREAT Defender when you install that LS "V8", whichever one you choose.
But PLEASE, don't give up on the LSA, it is a MIGHTY engine, perhaps even more docile than the LS3,...so make sure you do have a really good look at its "possibilities" before you make your decision.
Supercharging is commonplace on Aussie V8s, plenty have a car with an LS3 & then they might place a Harrop Blower on top,...happens all the time, but the benefit of the LSA is that its "FACTORY",..all the R & D, testing etc has been done, factory engine cover, fittings etc, it's all there, it's a factory engine so ya get warranty etc.
I reckon a powerful engine is like a good powerful stereo, ya don't use the power all the time, but when ya want to "crank it up",...the power's there!
Pickles.
I'm a life member of the HSV Owners Club, & we went to the HSV HQ last night to view HSV's latest Commodore, the "W1", which is fitted with the LS9,..480KW, previously seen only in the ZR1 Corvette!!...only 250 to be made,..what a car!

28th Feb 2017 9:56pm

Bristol 90XS

Member Since: 31 Oct 2010
Location: North of Bath
Posts: 223

Hi Pickles,
Understand why you're saying but have spoken with Wildcat this evening and they are saying that the LSA would be too much torque for the car not just the driveline. They've had a play with he higher powered LS3 versions also and they re-iterate what Andy was saying about drivability and balance. So the LS3 at 430bhp is the best compromise if thats the right word.
Its still almost 4x the bhp and 3x the torque of standard car so will be a massive difference anyway. I'm sure Andy and I will find problems as we run the cars with the LS3 in them as it is.
So although the LSA sounds amazing I just don't think its the right application to put in Defender.
Still absolutely looking forward to having it installed!!
James

28th Feb 2017 10:56pm

Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3753

No worries Bristol, I just had to get all my enthusiasm for LSA out there!!
"Looking Forward To It"?.....So am I.
I hope they fit a decent exhaust, some of the one's I've heard from the UK, are lacking the "bark" I'm used to hearing in Aussie,..so make sure it's "Loud & Proud", when you put the foot down.
You'll be going for the ultimate brakes,..AP 6 spots front, 4 spots rear?
You must be very excited, I'm enjoying the discussion.
Regards, Pickles.

28th Feb 2017 11:56pm

Bristol 90XS

Member Since: 31 Oct 2010
Location: North of Bath
Posts: 223

Hey Pickles - no worries!!

Interms of brakes and suspension etc the car is running 6 pot front and 6 pot rear Tarox brakes and stops very well. Suspension is lowered by 1" and have an uprated Anti roll bar at rear. Car is sat on 18" wheels to further reduce body roll in corners and it handles extremely well.

Planning to give it a good clean at weekend and will take photos then.

James

1st Mar 2017 2:53pm

Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3753

So James, when is the LS3 going in?
Pickles.

1st Mar 2017 10:18pm

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