 | Home > Off Topic > Incredible good analysis of british and german car industry |
 
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| Kraut Member Since: 28 Dec 2011 Location: Westphalia Posts: 336   
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I think extremly well researched BBC comparison between british and german car manufacturing industry from post WWII till today. Really hard to understand why the british iconic manufacturers allways only blamend the unions (certainly they were one part leading to this decline) for this desastrous progress of spoiling one of the biggest manufacturers in the world, very impressive:
http://www.defender2.net/forum/posting.php?mode=newtopic&f=15 correct link! : Last edited by Kraut on 17th May 2014 3:21pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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17th May 2014 12:23pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816  
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Kraut, seems you inserted the wrong link there.... You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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17th May 2014 2:44pm |
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| Kraut Member Since: 28 Dec 2011 Location: Westphalia Posts: 336
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Oh
 , sorry for that!!!
Thanks Eric, here's the link I wanted to post: |
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17th May 2014 3:20pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816
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Just watched the entire special. A pragmatic reality show I would say. Well done.
 You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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17th May 2014 6:16pm |
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| Birdy Member Since: 07 Oct 2011 Location: Côte d'Azur Posts: 853  
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One of the first examples of “globalisation” was - and as much as anything for research and statistics - the manufacture of identical single-rail Ford gearboxes for the Sierra and Taunus, in Dagenham and Köln respectively.
A German colleague commented that production was higher in Germany. I laughed: “Are you trying to make out that Germans work harder than Brits?” He replied (and his words, not mine): “No, just that we work our Turks harder than you work your Pakistanis” Peter |
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17th May 2014 9:13pm |
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| martinfiattech Member Since: 13 Nov 2013 Location: leicester Posts: 422 
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Just had a quick look this was on a while ago it`s very good.
Myself I`am in my 24 th year in the motor trade, and yes the unions had a lot to answer for, but the manufactures were also turning out crap cars that they thought we should be gald to drive, allegro anyone ?? Anyone remember the first Datsun`s and Honda`s that turned up, they worked, they had carpets and radios. I remember carrying out pre delivery inspections. Drilling holes in the wings of brand new cars to fit radio aerials, they came in a box in the boot the factory did`ent fit them Can you believe the job card, This was my first few years Carry out pdi, Supply and fit number plates, Etch windows, Fit mud flaps, Supply and fit radio cassette, speakers, option 2 electric aerial, Supply and fit In car phone, up grade engine battery to 72 amp hour rating. Fit alarm and immobiliser. Check carburettor specs and timming How times have changed !!!! Excuse the spelling I`am better with spanners and wires. |
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17th May 2014 9:59pm |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3140  
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I think most people of my generation consider unions a waste of time, and certainly to a great extent I do. I can't find a job that pays sick pay for example, training places are almost non-existent. Did the unions fight any of this?
It terrifies me to think that I could contact an illness and end up homeless and destitute. I had a grievance with a former employer, I was in a union at the time. The rep they sent was a very pleasant chap, but far too "nice" and didn't seem to want to actually fight for me. He made various requests of my employer which were totally ignored and they seemed to have no comeback or way to actually enforce anything. Many employers in my experience treat their employees like dirt and get away with it. Slightly OT but there we go... 2011 110 USW 1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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17th May 2014 10:14pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971 
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I went round the Lotus factory a couple of weeks ago. They build all of their cars by hand, a bit like the Defender I guess. One key difference being that they have an area that all cars pass through as part of the QC process which floods them with water from all directions to check for leaks. Again, they're not British owned and haven't been for a while.
We had a bit of an issue at work involving someone that was a member of a union and the rep was completely useless too. I don't have much time for unions myself but I did feel rather sorry for the person in question that was a member and got nothing out of it. |
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17th May 2014 11:20pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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I think part of the problem is the 'line of thinking'. For example, councils tend to forget what they are there for - to represent the people. They start to act as a separate body, as if they're somehow detached from their purpose. I think this is a human-mind thing, as employees tend toward it to. They forget that they are actually there, employed, for the business they are working for. Although you, personally, go into work to get money; the fact remains that you are there for your employer to earn money too - to pay you.
Back in the 1970s, unions lost sight of the need to keep companies in business and thriving. For example: A boss says that he needs to save £100,000 to keep the business alive. Does he get rid of five employees, or do all the employees accept a wage cut? Now, some unions would say, "Neither, we're going out on strike". This was (and is) madness. It didn't just affect the factory, it affected the employees at all the supplying factories too! Unions always fail to see the bigger picture - just like management fails to see the need for long-term investment. Remember that you are there for your employer's use, and to ensure the company's success - as you wouldn't have a job without it! I'm old enough to remember British Leyland employees 'working' the night shift, and finding a place to sleep! BL's problems were many, but the unions played a big part in its downfall in their 'class struggle'. Remember Red Robbo? If you're too young to know who he was then Google him. Jesus! If I remember correctly he was responsible for over 500 'walkouts'. There are a few people who have helped ruin Britain - you could make a list. He was one. Now left. |
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18th May 2014 7:38am |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3140
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On the other side of the coin, management in general seem to have forgotten the motto of "lead by example". They talk about needing to cut back to keep profitable (nothing wrong with that) but they start by cutting the workers pay, or making workers redundant. They never look at themselves and say "Do I really need to run a Maserati as a company car?" or whatever. I have seen this in the real world. If managers were more prepared to say "I'm going to take a pay cut and lose my fancy car/suit/gold cufflinks etc" workers would be much more amenable to changes. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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18th May 2014 9:56am |
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| jimbob7 Member Since: 06 Jul 2013 Location: uk Posts: 2055 |
Unions are only as good as the people who are in it,for every 100 people in a work place you can only rely on 3-4 people.So i would say most people in (or out of) a union are a waste of time. I've only known 3 decent reps in 25 years,all the others knew less about employment law than me or were just feathering their own nest.Best advice I can give anyone is learn your employment rights and read your employment contract,which most people stupidly don't,even then you still rely on people to back you up.....good luck with that  . Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5. |
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18th May 2014 11:22am |
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| Happyoldgit Member Since: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3471 
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The full story is complex but there is no doubt 'we' [the UK] paid a heavy price for defeating fascism. At the end of the war Britain was virtually bankrupt and it was only as late as 2006 that we paid the final repayment for the 1945 US loan. As the production states we were active in assisting the re-establishment of many areas of former Axis and European industry and in doing so permitted much of our own and German wartime research and development and scientific knowledge to disappear across the Atlantic.
Agreed, the unions have much to answer for and some of them have been rightly slated over the past three decades or more. Looking much further back in time though they achieved a lot improving many workers pay and conditions, however the increasingly entrenched worker v management positions prevalent post WWII spelt the death-knell for much of British industry. Steve. Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades. Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW. [Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc] http://forums.lr4x4.com I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic. |
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18th May 2014 2:37pm |
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| martinfiattech Member Since: 13 Nov 2013 Location: leicester Posts: 422
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The unions are now looking at the motor trade again we had a gmb guy or some kind of union bod lurking around a while a go, they have woken up to we are still alive and getting good / better money, the level of education needed nowadays is much higher.
I don`t think he saw that coming he was only 20 ish bless him. As for when I started if you could write your name you were in, luckly for me nuts, bolts, wires, ect come naturally, written work not so. They give it all songs and brother hood lark but like many have said WE remember, I`am not paying £10 a month to a union as I`ve got on ok by myself so far Excuse the spelling I`am better with spanners and wires. |
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18th May 2014 5:13pm |
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| jimbob7 Member Since: 06 Jul 2013 Location: uk Posts: 2055 |
....not forgetting the biggest culprits for destroying uk industry is anybody who buys foreign imports
. Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5. |
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18th May 2014 9:58pm |
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