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| 110SEB Member Since: 29 Jan 2009 Location: Essex, England Posts: 1444   
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It's a shame you feel this way, Shropshire Lad.
Truth be told, you're quite right - it is totally unacceptable, especially as Land Rover purport to be a purveyor of luxury vehicles. However, as you say most modern cars have warranty issues. £6,000 cars are far simpler than any LR. Our Ka is a case in point. 70,000 miles and only usual wear to be sorted out. The thing is, despite our 110 not being flawless, we love it. We don't want a Land Cruiser or a Nissan Pathfinder. It's all about what you want really. We wanted a Defender, so we bought one. |
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28th Apr 2009 1:56pm |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: RegiĆ³n Metropolitana Posts: 2109  
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Shropshire Lad
Well maybe you are right in some points, but as we said some time ago, we tend to use this forum to share our problems more than our great moments with this car. I will not endorse with that the responsability of LR over all the faults that has been common in our fenders (sump, pumps, etc). I had several cars during my life, from Americans to Koreans and for far, this is the most faulty one (sorry to said that). But on the other hand, has been also the car that give us more satisfactions. Some facts that I take in account when I bougth my Puma: a) Is a new model were all the motor / interior / gearbox / transmission has been changed. So a period of fault detection should be allowed and probably models of 2009 and 2010 will be less faulty. But if this period last more than that... Houston we have a problem. I will like to leave the guarantee period with all the faults solved. b) When I bought it I do not expect a Mercedes, I expect a rough car that can resist the abuse and comply with the KISS principle. c) I do not have other alternative here in Chile at a reasonable price to move all the family to anywere. Cheers Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo"  Click image to enlarge |
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28th Apr 2009 2:22pm |
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| AndrewS Member Since: 10 Apr 2007 Location: Hereford Posts: 3707 
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I also agree it can be a
 car, however I just spent the weekend leading a group for Protrax. We covered green lanes around Bala and Aberdovey covering about 90 miles and it was great. The car performed brilliantly.
Its easy to come on here and wine about the car but seems hard to sign in and sing its praise  I suppose thats why there are more - posts. |
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28th Apr 2009 3:24pm |
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| Shropshire Lad Member Since: 03 Nov 2008 Location: Shropshire Posts: 40 
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Seb
I totally agree, it is horses for courses and we all like to by what we want. However, my point is that it should be fit for purpose. I mean you may choose a Panasonic TV over a Sony because you prefer the picture or the brand or whatever but the point being you expect both to work properly and be fit for purpose. At the other end of the scale you may choose or have to by a more budget brand costing far less knowing it will do the job but not necessarily be quite as good but you get what you pay for. My point being that with the Defender and dare I say it the Range Rover (I've owned all models bar a RR Sport) you are paying a premium for a product where quite frankly far too many of them have far too many serious issues. I accept and have made the point about other cars having warranty issues but in my ownership of BMW and Honda I have only ever had minor things go wrong. All of these on cars which are far more technically developed with far more things on them that are prone to go wrong. This is from someone who covers/ has covered 50,000 miles a year for 10 years in cars from these makes. Land Rover is producing cars and charging premium prices and as such should ensure that the vehicles are fit for their purpose. LR 90 XS GONE! Hurrah! |
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28th Apr 2009 3:35pm |
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5026 
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I think its niave to believe LR are any worse with faults - not to long BMW on a m series poduct had a engine and gearbox issue - serious one. The difference is, the quickly and quietly changed the engines over and rapidly solved the problems - no customer hassel.
Some of the issues are dealer related, few are LR. But more premium brands - porsche for example. Have significant faults more so than LR. How many on all Martins forums compared to how many sold with no issue - i bet if it gets to 10% you are lucky Mike |
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28th Apr 2009 6:03pm |
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| nicks Member Since: 21 Aug 2008 Location: south coast Posts: 469 
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my rear brakes still rattle, new shims fitted - no change, new pads fitted stopped for a couple of days, rattle is getting worse now - dealers don't know what to do about it, have asked LR but nothing back yet |
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28th Apr 2009 6:27pm |
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| Shropshire Lad Member Since: 03 Nov 2008 Location: Shropshire Posts: 40
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sorry mse. have to agree to differ. i don't believe it's niave more an uncomfortable truth! your example with the bmw is classic; there was an issue BMW sorted it and no customer hassle. LR invariably deny that there are issues with their product when they know that there are and leave customers to battle the dealers or they continue to manufacture in the knowledge of problems and then wait for it go wrong rather than do anything proactive. seems to me LR are in good company with TATA maybe TATA will be able to take the product to their level!!!
with regard to your point about 10%... and how many sold with no issue, if that were the case maybe you should check out JDPower for the last 10 years.... or the truth about the discovery 3 etc etc LR 90 XS GONE! Hurrah! |
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28th Apr 2009 6:31pm |
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| sasha2001 Member Since: 02 Jan 2009 Location: New Zealand+ russia Posts: 206  
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Is all a matter of personal choice and sometimes it dos not work, with cars its like Stats, eg Swine flu if you get it
5% will die, not important if you live!!!, very bad if you are one of the 5% So if you get a lemon of a car no matter what you are upset but espically if you know that LR cars can be a problem and you still buy it and then complain you have to accept some blame for this, its like an alcoholic knows if you do not drink you do not have a problem, if you choose to drink and have a problem knowing alcohol is not good for you you have to accept the consequences of your actions. Each to his own, I feel sorry for someone who has a bad puma,For interest my friend has a BMW745i, out of warranty, BMW in governement service here have been no more problem free than ford Falcons!!! rear air suspension failure, alternator failure, brake problems etc $20000 and more so even though JD power says 98% good he is feeling like he has a lemon,again stastitics he is one of 2% !!!!,all cars cause problems, if you choose to buy accept what may happen, you brought it with knowledge. Yet I know of one PUMA 2007 here 80000km and not a problem BUt I can understand the lack of dealer support which does not help Interesting, re japanese cars A friend in the USA says toyota are starting to get lots of problems and have slipped from top in JD power down to 4th in some areas, yet finally jag is up there but maybe too late for them!! As eduaro said, its like asking a person to change from supporting say Man united to Chelsea, its all a person own thinking that defines what car to buy |
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28th Apr 2009 8:33pm |
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| Scallops Member Since: 15 Aug 2007 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 89 
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Jeez mate - HTFU!  You are right though - Defender ownership is a strange mixture of frustration and exhilaration - when things are going well, you just can't beat the satisfaction and thrill of driving "The King".  |
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29th Apr 2009 12:32am |
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| sasha2001 Member Since: 02 Jan 2009 Location: New Zealand+ russia Posts: 206
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Yes HTFU like "chopper reid"!!!!! |
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29th Apr 2009 1:56am |
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| Scallops Member Since: 15 Aug 2007 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 89
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Exactly! |
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29th Apr 2009 2:02am |
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| Leo Member Since: 25 Apr 2009 Location: under an acacia Posts: 22 
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No question, build quality on the Defender is
to the point I sometimes think a blind man put it together. Still love it though  |
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29th Apr 2009 3:38pm |
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| Setok Member Since: 16 Jan 2009 Location: Helsinki Posts: 417 
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Well, it has to be said that anywhere you go, Land Rover has a bad reputation for reliability. You hear the same story in countries all round the world, and many say that is one of the main factors contributing to the rise of the Jap 4x4s everywhere (whereas LR used to dominate the market).
So I have a really hard time swallowing the claim that all cars have problems to the same degree. For LR their reputation is a serious matter, as it affects their sales. Not something to be brushed aside. And that reputation doesn't come out of nowhere. Having said that, I'd still love one, but I'm not quite sure why LR seems to be so unable to fix things, especially with a car that is so basic. |
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29th Apr 2009 3:56pm |
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| Grockle Member Since: 24 Nov 2008 Location: Peak District National Park Posts: 2266 
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When we had the RR franchise back in the 90's they were far worse than the LR's of to-day,and they weren't 4x4
2.4 90 XS
1968 1/32 scale Britains 109 Pick up. |
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29th Apr 2009 4:00pm |
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