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wrcarter

Member Since: 14 Jan 2021
Location: Laois
Posts: 45

1989 Defender 110 200 Tdi CSW Portofino Red

200tdi overheating

Hi all. Looking for a bit of advice here from those who are wiser than myself.

I have a 1989 110 that was fitted with a 200tdi engine. I believe the conversion was done by Land Rover in the early to mid 90s. I bought it about 2 years ago with very little Land Rover experience. When I initially bought it, the temperature sender had failed. Not realising it I fitted a 200tdi one and it read high. While I was waiting for correct one to arrive, one of the pipes for the heater matrix failed and caused it to over heat a bit. Not sure how much as the gauge was incorrect. I decided to go a refresh on the cooling system so replaced all the hoses, water pump and radiator. I also flushed water through the engine and heater to flush them out. Some britparts there as I didn’t know better at the time but all seemed fine for about a year. Temperature gauge sat bang on half way.

Last summer we purchased a caravan and did a few trips with it. On the long drives in summer weather (Irish summer so not that hot and some rain), the gauge would climb a bit above 1/2 way. Still within the white section. However recently it has started to move to the end of the white section in normal driving and am trying to diagnose the issue.

It has done about 5000 miles since the above was changed.

In the engine bay, everything seems ok, no smell of overheating. Radiator reasonably clean. Belt doesn’t appear to be slipping. Hot water going in top of radiator and cold out the bottom after a drive, cold on the lower pipe gets warm when not moving, so there appears to be flow.

I changed the thermostat to a 88 degree C waxstat one. I tested it in a saucepan with the old one and both seemed to open and roughly the same temperature.

Unplugged the sender, cleaned the connection along with the earth point on the bulkhead. Even clamped a cable from the two to ensure a good ground. The temperature doesn’t appear to change when turning on/off electrical items. Would it be fair to rule out an electrical issue?

Could the Britpart water pump have failed and reduced flow? It’s not leaking with is normally how they seem to fail from my research.

It is not using or loosing coolant. Oil is still black. When warm there is a small release of pressure from the header tank but I wouldn’t call it excessive, less that most cars I’d say. No bubbles coming back into the tank either. It doesn’t appear to be the headgasket but from looking online, they can be difficult to diagnose.

Looking for your thoughts or suggestions on what to try next.

Thanks

William 1989 Land Rover 110 CSW

8th Jun 2023 9:48am

nicholas2012

Member Since: 28 Jun 2012
Location: lanarkshire
Posts: 190

Hi, everything I was going to suggest I think you've covered simpler things like thermostat radiator etc could be early stages of head gasket or cylinder head problems but if its not pressurizing hoses or losing couldn't is difficult to say for sure, if it is those from my experience it will soon become obvious as isn't a job you'd want to undertake unless sure that's the problem.

Someone else may come along with more helpful suggestions, good luck

8th Jun 2023 10:29am

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5438

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver

I’ve know the impeller to become loose on the pump shaft before. That would be my starting place. Then look towards head gasket.

8th Jun 2023 10:54am

spudfan

Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4515

Could be as simple as a loose fan belt. Check to see if there is excess play in it . If it has been changed it is recommended you check it after 1000 miles and readjust if necessary. We have a 1992 200 tdi and I have had it since 1996 and never had problems. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

8th Jun 2023 11:12am

Bps

Member Since: 14 Feb 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 789

Overheating

Is your viscous fan working ?

8th Jun 2023 12:13pm

wrcarter

Member Since: 14 Jan 2021
Location: Laois
Posts: 45

Thanks for the advice lads.

The belt seems tight. There is a small bit of play in it but reasonably tight. It did actually loosen after first fitted but I tightened it up.

Viscous appears to be working correctly. The gauge is slightly higher when driving than idling so that would also indicate to me it’s not a viscous issue.

Andy, I actually have a spare pump. I accidentally order 2 by mistake and since it was from a UK site, I didn’t bother to return it so it’s the next best thing to try.

I have very little service history but it appears to have been maintained reasonably well. The last owner was a mechanic. The engine was fitted in 95 and had done approximately 185k miles since then so probably due a head gasket if not already changed.

It’s not showing obvious signs of HG failures but maybe I just need it to get a bit worse. I’m not a fan of the additives to repair head gaskets but would they be of any use here as something to try if it improves things? 1989 Land Rover 110 CSW

8th Jun 2023 1:36pm

wrcarter

Member Since: 14 Jan 2021
Location: Laois
Posts: 45

Update time.

I removed the pump and it looks fine other than finding a small bit of blue RTV which some previous mechanic must have used.

Click image to enlarge

It’s starting to look more and more like a HG issue

1989 Land Rover 110 CSW

8th Jun 2023 2:59pm

mini Anaconda

Member Since: 23 Aug 2016
Location: Thames Valley
Posts: 728

Have you checked the viscous fan is actually working properly? I thought mine was on my 200tdi (it wasn't), I replaced it and it made a vast difference.

A 200tdi should run cool naturally, I have only just taken my radiator muff off from winter and didn't have any problems with the engine getting warm. BORG - Bucks & Oxon 4x4 Response Group

8th Jun 2023 3:38pm

wrcarter

Member Since: 14 Jan 2021
Location: Laois
Posts: 45

It kicks in for the first few minutes. Tested it with a piece of cardboard. Then more or less stops spinning until it’s hot again. Does that sound correct?

Yea, I’ve read that the 200tdi runs cool, hence why I’m concerned that it’s moving up the gauge. It’s not at the red but trying to resolve the issue before it definitely becomes a hg issue. From what I’ve read and my experience with old BMWs is that the viscous is only needed when you don’t have airflow. If you are cruising along at 50 mph, the airflow through the rad should be sufficient. The viscous in my old e30 didn’t work for over a year, just got a bit hot if sitting in traffic but I rarely did that.

I’ve never changed a HG before but it doesn’t seem too bad of a job. My worry is if the head is gone, sourcing one in Ireland wouldn’t be that easy unless ye know where there is a good supply of the in the UK that are willing to post and don’t charge a fortune.

I have flushed out the rad and engine. A bit of discoloured water out of the rad but nothing of concern. Engine was fairly clean too so I might just reassemble for the moment. I’ve no reason to question the pump now so i’ll reuse that. 1989 Land Rover 110 CSW

8th Jun 2023 3:57pm

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5438

I doubt the fan has been needed for cooling yet this year.

Whip the head off and get a look at the gasket. I’d then suggest you get it to an engineering company and ask if they think a skim is required or not, and if they can cast an eye over it. As you don’t have experience.

8th Jun 2023 5:42pm

NickMc

Member Since: 01 Oct 2014
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1572

wrcarter wrote:
It kicks in for the first few minutes. Tested it with a piece of cardboard. Then more or less stops spinning until it’s hot again. Does that sound correct?

Yea, I’ve read that the 200tdi runs cool, hence why I’m concerned that it’s moving up the gauge. It’s not at the red but trying to resolve the issue before it definitely becomes a hg issue. From what I’ve read and my experience with old BMWs is that the viscous is only needed when you don’t have airflow. If you are cruising along at 50 mph, the airflow through the rad should be sufficient. The viscous in my old e30 didn’t work for over a year, just got a bit hot if sitting in traffic but I rarely did that.

I’ve never changed a HG before but it doesn’t seem too bad of a job. My worry is if the head is gone, sourcing one in Ireland wouldn’t be that easy unless ye know where there is a good supply of the in the UK that are willing to post and don’t charge a fortune.

I have flushed out the rad and engine. A bit of discoloured water out of the rad but nothing of concern. Engine was fairly clean too so I might just reassemble for the moment. I’ve no reason to question the pump now so i’ll reuse that.

Is it a proper defender engine or discovery lump? Engine number is stamped front corner of the block flat looking down- drivers side should start 11L or 12L

Do not put that additive deleted expletive stuff anywhere near the thing!!!!

Any decent motor factor over here can get you a Tdi head gasket next day. Or go to turner engineering and order one. It’s a very simple job on a 200 Tdi.

They normally read just over half way when warm, check you haven’t got a duff “new” sensor (I don’t see many now, but recall there was a few different ones?), the wrong temp thermostat for the climate or faulty expansion tank cap

8th Jun 2023 6:02pm

Retroanaconda

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2565

How are the fins on the radiator? Not rusted away or clogged with mud/dirt?

8th Jun 2023 6:55pm

wrcarter

Member Since: 14 Jan 2021
Location: Laois
Posts: 45

Radiator fins are clean, radiator is only 2 years old and not on muddy trials.

The temp sensor was fine initially but potentially could have failed since.

It’s a proper defender lump.

I am beginning to agree with the above on the HG. I called an engineering shop earlier and they can pressure test and skim for around €180 so it seems to be the way to go. Definitely worth having them look at it while it’s off anyway. I’m quite busy for the next 2 weeks. Wife crashed her car and is using mine so I might reassemble and have it incase over the next 2 weeks and then do the head. I’ll call the motorfactors in the morning and see what they can do on parts. HG gasket and kit. Anything else I need? Any preferred brands or ones to avoid. 1989 Land Rover 110 CSW

8th Jun 2023 7:27pm

wrcarter

Member Since: 14 Jan 2021
Location: Laois
Posts: 45

[quote="NickMc"]

wrcarter wrote:

Do not put that additive deleted expletive stuff anywhere near the thing!!!!

Sorry meant to add that that would be my normal response to those things but think I had a moment of stupidity there. Thanks for putting me back on the straight and narrow. 1989 Land Rover 110 CSW

8th Jun 2023 7:34pm

spudfan

Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4515

Intercooler may be blocked. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

8th Jun 2023 7:51pm

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