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jrharte



Member Since: 08 May 2016
Location: Newry
Posts: 20

United Kingdom 2000 Defender 90 Td5 X-Tech LE Zambezi Silver
Replaced entire braking system - 3 amigos remain!

Hey guys,

I have 2000 Defender 90 TD5. It's the XS model so came with ABS.

Over the last year it had developed the infamous 3 amigos. But they didn't all light at once.

When you started up ABS and TC remained lit. Then upon using the brakes for the first time after starting, there was little to no braking power. It felt like the brakes were grinding. After letting off the brake and braking again they worked perfectly (without ABS) but the brake warning lamp came on and stayed on.

I had the codes read with a Hawkeye Pro and it was throwing everything related to ABS. The mechanic suggested removing ABS entirely and replacing with non-ABS braking system. He specialises in Land Rovers had done it previously to another Defender.

So now the jobs all done, braking is perfect, but the 3 lights are constantly illuminated.

Reading the codes shows the following:

"ECU ground or Reference ground fault"

"Front Left sensor electrical failure"

Clearing the codes gets rids of the sensor fault but ECU ground fault stays, and the 3 amigos never go out.

Has anyone has any similar experiences or idea on where to start looking? I used a multi-meter to test the ground from ECU to -ve terminal and it was fine.

I've disconnected the ABS ECU to see if the lights go out (as ABS is gone), but the lights stay on.

Post #686374 13th Feb 2018 6:19pm
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bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 976

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green

Are the ABS sensors fully seated? Same thing happened to me a couple times ABS sensor had come loose, only took a couple mm for it to throw a fit

Post #686383 13th Feb 2018 7:14pm
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jrharte



Member Since: 08 May 2016
Location: Newry
Posts: 20

United Kingdom 2000 Defender 90 Td5 X-Tech LE Zambezi Silver
Re: Replaced entire braking system - 3 amigos remain!

bankz5152 wrote:
Are the ABS sensors fully seated? Same thing happened to me a couple times ABS sensor had come loose, only took a couple mm for it to throw a fit


ABS has been removed and replaced with non-ABS braking.

Post #686385 13th Feb 2018 7:27pm
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grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 3138

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue

In that case you need to replace the warning light cluster, there are two types. ABS and non ABS. Otherwise remove the leds from the pcb to solve the problem.

I think all non ABS defenders show an ABS fault but it doesn't trigger a MIL

It's a bit late now but removing the ABS and hence traction control seems like a rather large backwards step to me Shocked 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Defender Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton

Post #686392 13th Feb 2018 7:45pm
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rallysteve



Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Rotherham
Posts: 836

United Kingdom 1984 Defender 90 V8 Petrol PU Caledonian Blue

Instruments are the same. You need to look at the wiring diagram for the instruments and modify the wiring for the non abs model. From memory it means linking two wires back to the instruments (through built in resistors) rather than to the abs unit.

Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab

Post #686394 13th Feb 2018 7:55pm
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bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 976

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green

In that case pull the fuse. Doesnt seem wise to me, could cause issues at MOT time.

Post #686396 13th Feb 2018 7:59pm
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jrharte



Member Since: 08 May 2016
Location: Newry
Posts: 20

United Kingdom 2000 Defender 90 Td5 X-Tech LE Zambezi Silver

grafty99 wrote:

It's a bit late now but removing the ABS and hence traction control seems like a rather large backwards step to me Shocked


It needed the modulator replaced (at a hefty sum of around £2000 for the new part). I did the galv chassis and new clutch etc last year, so no way I'm spending another £2000 plus on ABS lol.

Parts and labour for the new non-ABS was £500.

Post #686402 13th Feb 2018 8:14pm
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grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 3138

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue

Fair enough, but you don't necessarily need to buy new. Good second hand is about £150. As it's now done however I guess there is less to go wrong Thumbs Up 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Defender Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton

Post #686404 13th Feb 2018 8:20pm
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jrharte



Member Since: 08 May 2016
Location: Newry
Posts: 20

United Kingdom 2000 Defender 90 Td5 X-Tech LE Zambezi Silver

rallysteve wrote:
Instruments are the same. You need to look at the wiring diagram for the instruments and modify the wiring for the non abs model. From memory it means linking two wires back to the instruments (through built in resistors) rather than to the abs unit.

Steve


Just found this online:


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge


Is this the type of thing you mean? Connecting the wires from two pins to turn off the light?

Post #686405 13th Feb 2018 8:27pm
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rallysteve



Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Rotherham
Posts: 836

United Kingdom 1984 Defender 90 V8 Petrol PU Caledonian Blue

Dont see the issue, ABS was optional fit. Removal of ABS and fitment of all tge required non ABS parts will cause no issues. What possible issue would that cause at MOT time? 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab

Post #686406 13th Feb 2018 8:29pm
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rallysteve



Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Rotherham
Posts: 836

United Kingdom 1984 Defender 90 V8 Petrol PU Caledonian Blue

Yes that's the one, see here:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sour...mYN0ny-K-2

Page 79

Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab

Post #686408 13th Feb 2018 8:30pm
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grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 3138

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue

rallysteve wrote:
Dont see the issue, ABS was optional fit. Removal of ABS and fitment of all tge required non ABS parts will cause no issues. What possible issue would that cause at MOT time?


Yeah no issues with MOT, if it isn't there that can't test it Thumbs Up 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Defender Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton

Post #686410 13th Feb 2018 8:32pm
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jrharte



Member Since: 08 May 2016
Location: Newry
Posts: 20

United Kingdom 2000 Defender 90 Td5 X-Tech LE Zambezi Silver

rallysteve wrote:
Dont see the issue, ABS was optional fit. Removal of ABS and fitment of all tge required non ABS parts will cause no issues. What possible issue would that cause at MOT time?


The brake warning light is staying illuminated as well, not just ABS and TC. I thought they would fail on the brake light being on?

Post #686411 13th Feb 2018 8:36pm
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V8GPC



Member Since: 18 Jul 2016
Location: Manchester
Posts: 203

United Kingdom 

looks like you need a few wiring mods; no resistors

www.retroanaconda.com/landrover/2009/10/in...tdi300tdi/
Shows some nice pin outs with colours. (may vary on earlier models, but you can normally work out the pin numbers from the back.

Small plug is the 16 pin reference. Pin 10 link to pin 6 will switch off the ABS light
Same plug link Pin 13 to pin 9 to switch off brake light fault.

Then take same plug pin 14 and connect to break level switch (its driven by connecting to ground); also comes on with handbrake switch.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DEFENDER-TD5-In...5HS5kveUPA

spare plugs and pins

Post #686460 13th Feb 2018 10:37pm
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roel



Member Since: 08 Aug 2009
Location: Lelystad
Posts: 1500

Netherlands 2003 Defender 90 Td5 PU Caledonian Blue

I had once a problem with warning lights and with me it was a damaged part off the plate.


Click image to enlarge


I solved it this way:



Click image to enlarge


A new part was expensive.Smile Roel

1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001)
1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009)
2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-now)
2003 90 Td5 (2009-now)

Post #686521 14th Feb 2018 10:20am
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