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rossy

Member Since: 29 Nov 2010
Location: Co. Roscommon
Posts: 1296

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Stornoway Grey

oily intake manifold and burning oil

65000km total mileage on 2011 2.4. Runs fine. Just towed the caravan back from France. Sprightly as ever. But :

I changed the oil today as I suspected for the first time ever she's burning a bit .As I do usually short journeys I normally change oil and filter every six months regardless of mileage. In 3500 miles 7.4L in (including last oil change) - 6.5l drained out so I've used .9L or around 240ml per 1000 miles. Seems a lot for a Puma.

The plastic intake manifold and the metal pipe have gradually become quite oily on the outside. However I recently cleaned the MAP sensor and when I shone a torch into the hole the inside of the pipe looked fairly clean surprisingly.

A couple of things that might be relevant - the (genuine) oil filter looked a bit twisted /squashed (paper fins weren't straight) when I took it out so would this have caused a restriction in oil pumping ? Secondly the previous oil change was the first time I used the super cheap Halfords January sale WSS 913C that I bought in their January sale ! I put Castrol in today !

I've spent the last hour on the search mode but apart from possibly a crankcase ventilation issue or injector seals (no oil around the base of injectors) I couldn't find anything definite. The oil that drained out did smell quite burnt - more than I remember before but that might be a brand thing. I take it that Pumas don't have a PCV valve as such - its built into the rocker cover but as always I would be grateful for any ideas as to what's going on. As I said performance, mpg are same as ever.
thanks in advance

.

27th Aug 2016 10:47pm

LR90XS2011

Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 3616

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green

it could be the halfords oil, oils do actually evaporate when hot, we have an issue at work with over 200 engines where we were seeing excessive oil and carbon in the turbos, lengthy investigations with lots of testing have pretty much proven we had an oil (bad batch) that exceeded the evaporation limit for the engine

(The NOACK Volatility Test, otherwise known as ASTM D-5800, determines the evaporation loss of lubricants in high-temperature service.[1] The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy and increased oil consumption, wear and emissions.)

our crank case separators could not cope and the oil was getting to the turbos etc, as the PUMA has no separator at all evaporation goes through the turbo the intercooler , egr and everything else gumming it up.

Another good reason for using quality lubricants DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy

28th Aug 2016 7:45am

bm52

Member Since: 04 Apr 2010
Location: Kent
Posts: 2189

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Havana

Thanks for the advice re quality oils.

If Oilman reads this - can we confirm all oils sold via Opie are quality oils. Just asking as this is an area where i know very little and have to trust makers product descriptions

28th Aug 2016 9:05am

rossy

Member Since: 29 Nov 2010
Location: Co. Roscommon
Posts: 1296

Thank you LR9
I hope you are correct in my case and that after a mere 3500m with that oil no damage has been done. Of course if the same symptoms persist with the Castrol then thats another story !

.

28th Aug 2016 9:36am

spudfan

Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4507

Does the oil have to be topped up ?

The engine oil level should be checked regularly to prevent incidents. A small amount of the oil that circulates in the engine is always burnt (an engine in good condition consumes between 0.2 and 0.5 liters of oil every 1,000 kilometers), but successive top-ups are no substitute for an oil change.

Accordingly, it is natural that an engine consumes a small amount of oil, which can be offset by top-ups between oil changes; however, excessive need for top-ups can be an indication of mechanical problems (leaks, etc).
Taken from this....
http://www.total.co.uk/lubricants/faq-lubricants.html

It is impossible to get all of the oil out of the sump when you drain it owing to the depression in the sump just behind the bung. Also a small amount will be trapped in the filter. Add that to the caravan towing and I'd say you have nothing to worry about. Short journeys with stop/starting will also lead to a small consumption of oil. I'd say if it was Halfords own brand you used you have nothing to worry about as it's made by Comma. I have used Comma XTECH 5W-30 brand myself and have no complaints. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

29th Aug 2016 7:19pm

ericvv

Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

spudfan wrote:
A small amount of the oil that circulates in the engine is always burnt (an engine in good condition consumes between 0.2 and 0.5 liters of oil every 1,000 kilometers)

Really?

Then there must be something wrong with the condition of mine, as it does not consume anything at all.

You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
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29th Aug 2016 8:09pm

spudfan

Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4507

That was taken from the Total Lubricants site.
I have two Pumas. One would do a fair amount of short journeys as well as long journeys and would use some oil. The other Puma only does long journeys and does not need topping up. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

29th Aug 2016 8:18pm

Roy5695

Member Since: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 1123

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Indus Silver

Do you have a raised air intake or snorkel? Ive been made aware that this can increase the oil in the intake pipe due to the turbo sucking air from the passage of least resistance... IE, if it cant get the air quick enough from the air intake it will suck air from the breather pipe too resulting in more oily air being used, more oil in the pipe work.

30th Aug 2016 8:14am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16933

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

A worn turbo will cause oil to be present in the induction system, potentially in large quantities.

An engine I bought for spares some time ago, which had been removed because it produced excessive blue smoke and was believed to be a victim of the piston cooling jet problem, had about an egg-cup-full of oil sitting in the turbo compressor but the induction side was cleam as a whistle. The turbo shaft had about 1/4" of longtitudinal movement, and although I haven't stripped the head or bottom end yet, I now believe that the basic fault was a worn turbo rather than anything more catastrophic.

30th Aug 2016 9:16am

Naks

Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Stellenbosch, ZA
Posts: 2603

2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White

ericvv wrote:
Then there must be something wrong with the condition of mine, as it does not consume anything at all.

And with mine also: 6 years/69,000 km and not a single drop of oil consumed

--
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged

Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9
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30th Aug 2016 11:09am

rossy

Member Since: 29 Nov 2010
Location: Co. Roscommon
Posts: 1296

Thanks for the replies
I have no snorkel and as far as I'm aware the turbo is OK, no loss of power or weird siren/dentist drill noises. MPG is the same as before. Until the last oil change the level always stayed right at the top of the dipstick and I don't remember drained sump oil ever smelling quite so 'burnt' before.

30th Aug 2016 8:11pm

VeeTee

Member Since: 06 Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1512

Naks wrote:
ericvv wrote:
Then there must be something wrong with the condition of mine, as it does not consume anything at all.

And with mine also: 6 years/69,000 km and not a single drop of oil consumed

And with my 300Tdi also: 20 years/370.000 km, no top ups required between oil changes.

Cheers, Vincent
1959 Polynorm 1/4 Ton Trailer, Olive Drab Green (sold)
1970 M416 Military Trailer (Camping Trailer Conversion), Epsom Green (sold)
1975 Series III 88 V6, Light Green (sadly sold)
1996 Defender 110 CSW 300 Tdi, Epsom Green (sold)
2000 Freelander 1 TD4 3-drs, Silver (sold)
2006 Freelander 1 TD4 5-drs Facelift Automatic, Tonga Green (sold)

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30th Aug 2016 8:25pm

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