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| tyrannosauROSS Member Since: 24 Jun 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 136   
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Good afternoon.
Im hoping that I can get some advice on my plans for my aux battery set up. I am running a basic '06 TD5 110 CSW that I'm converting into an overlanding vehicle. My plans are to add electric windows, central locking and heated front screen to the current electrics. I then wish to add a secondary battery system. In terms of amp hours needed and cable size, I'm fine. (the general rule of bigger is best applies+ what ever fits in the battery box) My plan WAS to run a Red top as my main battery and a yellow top as the aux. The aux loads will be Snowmaster 60l fridge freezer, a few aux LED lights i.e rear work lights, front light bar, CB radio, compressor and a few USB outlets. (Possibly in the future a winch) I want to add one of these to the front part of the roof rack, http://www.beamled.com/150w-silver-solar-p...oller.html to have it trickle into the main battery. I was going to use either the TMAX charging kit http://www.paddockspares.com/ba2685-t-max-...ystem.html or one of these; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2MTR-SPLIT-CHARG...1398157277 My confusion starts because Ive been reading that Deep cycle batteries prefer an intelligent charging profile to help them last longer, so should I be using something like the C-Tek, http://www.ctek.com/gb/en/chargers/100A%20OFF%20ROAD Should the solar panel feed the aux or the main battery if i use the more basic solenoid type kits? Has anyone any experience with solar panels in Europe, am i wasting my time? Should I be matching both my batteries to say Odysseys? so that they are identical? Ive read a tonne of stuff on here and else where and have just come out confused more! Any input gratefully received. Thanks Ross |
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23rd Jul 2016 3:56pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971 
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People seem not to buy the Optimas twice, if you're going to be putting an expensive battery in then use an Odyssey. The headline amp hour rating of the PC1700 isn't as good as the standard Defender battery but they are rated to a much lower state of discharge than standard batteries so the overall usable capacity is about the same (but obviously the cost is much higher).
A Ctek would be better, but look how many car batteries are just charged with the standard dumb alternator! How long are you planning on being parked up for? That would dictate whether a solar panel is actually useful. Connect to the aux battery if you just want it to charge the aux battery, connect to the main battery if you want to charge both. If there is enough current from the solar panel to charge the battery then the voltage will rise enough for the relay to make and join the two batteries. If the sun goes in then the voltage will fall and they'll separate. Something like the Ctek will manage the solar panel too so might work out better. Winch should be run from your main battery, then if you've got a solenoid capable of handling the winch's current you can combine the two batteries whilst winching. Either way, as close to the alternator as possible. If your winch is drawing 300A, then 100A will come from the alternator and 100A from each battery. |
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23rd Jul 2016 5:33pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971
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Oh a solar panel certainly isn't a silly thing at all, we've got an 80W panel powering a pump that's providing water to all our heifers in a field without mains water
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24th Jul 2016 3:35pm |
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| Mo Murphy Member Since: 01 Jun 2008 Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts Posts: 2079 
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As an aside to your main question, if you are truly going overlanding then I'd stick with your standard wind up windows and manual locking if I were you. Door harnesses are legendary for fatigued broken wires and repairing one somewhere remote whilst doable will be a pain in the arse on top of your daily maintenance tasks.
HTH Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen. |
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24th Jul 2016 3:54pm |
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| Brewstop Member Since: 28 Oct 2012 Location: South Oxfordshire Posts: 311 
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Another word of caution on Optima Red and Yellow tops.
When I bought my 110, it had red and yellow fitted recently, thought i was on to a winner but both batteries really disappointed me. They look pretty, the PR is great, performance doesn't match with reality. Sandy |
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24th Jul 2016 5:43pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971
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We had a tractor come with one. Not a very old battery and nominally much higher cranking amps than the one we replaced it with a month in to that tractor's first winter with us. We got bored of jump starting it every morning.
I was made to look like a bit of an idiot because I kept saying "no, no, there must be something else wrong" because the battery was pretty new and had such good ratings. But no, it was just a rubbish battery. |
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24th Jul 2016 7:08pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8578
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Odyssey batteries probably have a better reputation then Optima at the moment if you are going down the AGM route.
The second battery should be a combined leisure starter battery just in case you need to start the vehicle off the second battery. Going winch equipped then consider a 180-200 amps just in case you want to combine batteries for winching purposes. Keep things simple, why waste time, money etc installing electric windows and CL and possibly potential more problems whilst travelling Brendan |
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25th Jul 2016 9:02am |
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| tyrannosauROSS Member Since: 24 Jun 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 136
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Ok so Odysseys over Optima.
Ive been reading more and I'm still undecided about what dual battery set up to go with. Personally I have never needed to replace any vehicles battery. I have just never had one die on me. This is my first Defender. The aux battery system will run all non-standard electrics, Fridge, CB, Aux lighting etc. I also wish to put a solar panel on the roof. Ive been looking at split charge systems and they all seam to promise the world. So my question is... Is the C-Tek worth it? if choosing the C-Tek and plugging in the solar panel to it will the C-Tek charge the starter battery from the Solar Panel? My understanding is that the C-Tek will keep the batteries in better condition and therefor they will last longer.... is this actually a problem? Do the other more simple solenoid systems kill batteries that quickly/much? There is a lot of talk of people killing batteries/ having battery go bad... I am installing a winch bumper... no winch yet... but if I do, the C-Tek will not allow me to temporarily join the batteries. Will this be a bad thing? When people use their winches, do they drain the aux battery that fast? I assume if you join the two batteries together you have to be very careful about not draining the starter battery and then although you have freed yourself you are now dead in the water with no starter battery. All comments welcomed thanks Ross |
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29th Jul 2016 6:37am |
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| mikeh501 Member Since: 07 Jan 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1142
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I think the optima/odyssey debate is a little overdone. like you ive never had a battery fail (yet
). I have 2 optima blue tops in my 90 with a bluesea fancy solenoid between them. Never had an issue with any of it.
ctek - if your batteries are connected to each other then the ctek will charge both together no matter which one you connect it to. when batteries are connected in parallel it appear to anything in the circuit as one larger battery. Obviously the charger (of whatever type) will take longer to charge a bigger battery. winch - the purpose of any solenoid (or even just a big ass switch) between the starter battery and the accessory battery is to ensure you can still start the vehicle should your accessories drain your accessory battery. simples, and important id guess if your camping/overlanding somewhere remote. Normally you would be winching only with the engine running, and therefore the alternator is supplying a bunch of the electric required and not relying so heavily on your batteries. One thing to mention is that if you get a solenoid make sure it can handle a few hundred amps, not one of those ones meant for caravans. when was the last time you saw a caravan with a winch! Obviously the belt and braces route is to buy both! solenoid - goes between the batteries to join or disconnect them in different situations. charger - just another way of charging a battery(ies) not using your alternator. |
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29th Jul 2016 8:29am |
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| tyrannosauROSS Member Since: 24 Jun 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 136
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Thanks mikeh501, The C-Tek is a DC-DC charger... my understanding is that it charges the AUX battery from your Starter battery. Hence my question as I don't think the two batteries are physically linked, they are but only through the DC-DC charger thing.
From my what I can make out the C-Tek will make sure your AUX battery is always in tip top condition assuming that the alternator is looking after your Starter battery. Hence my confusion about if the C-Tek's solar input will actually charge/maintain the Starter. Half the reason for wanting the C-Tek is because if the Solar input does maintain the starter battery then when i park up for prolonged periods of time then it is a really compact unit. if it does not... then its more stuff... C-Tek distributeurs local to me are not answering emails and I've just sent a batch more out to suppliers further afield. hopefully they can help. Ross |
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29th Jul 2016 10:18am |
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| ChrisCM Member Since: 10 Jun 2013 Location: Cornwall uk Posts: 572 
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I have a c-tek 250s system in my 110 SW. It was very simple to instal 1 cable to Starter battery + 1 Cable to Aux battery + 1 cable to Solar panel + and one to Ground. As I have a large starter battery plus fuse boxes etc under the passenger seat I decided to put a 50AH AGM battery (the largest that would fit) under the drivers seat along with the c-tek, this powers my 35 litre ARB fridge and is also used for my HF Ham Radio.(photos in my gallery - sorry don't know how to link to them!)
I have installed a small 20w panel on the roof, the c-tek uses this to first charge the Aux battery and when this is fully charged, the starter battery. If I am parked up for any length of time then I can plug in my larger 80w panel using Anderson Plugs. Since installing the system it has worked perfectly, the solar panel, though small, provides enough of a trickle to counteract the ignition off drain of the tracker, alarm etc. The Aux battery, though only 50Ah has proved sufficient to power the fridge on a 24hr ferry crossing and on all our overnight stops. A useful tool for monitoring your battery usage,only costing between £10-12, is a wattmeter, this can be installed, temporarily using Anderson Plugs, or permanently between load and supply so you can see exactly how many Ah you are using or the voltage/wattage your solar panel is developing and Ahs delivered. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-precision-R...SwY45UN7F2 2010 Defender 110 Station Wagon, Santorini Black. |
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29th Jul 2016 11:38am |
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| mikeh501 Member Since: 07 Jan 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1142
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gotcha, i thought you were looking to connect the solar panel to one side of the DC-DC charger and the other to the linked batteries.
ive just had a look at the instructions for the D250S Dual charger and picked up a few things.... * Its a 20a charger. this means its going to take a while before your accessory battery is charged up if you have some large loads on it - i.e. a winch, fridge etc etc. Worst case it wont be enough to keep it charged. * They recommend due to the above, having some kind of direct connect setup ("smartpass") which allows up to 150a to pass, to get the accessory battery topped up quicker. * because your connecting the batteries only by this charger, then a winch (or any other load) will only see the battery they are connected to. * The smartpass is probably no more than a voltage sensing relay - aka fancy solenoid. |
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29th Jul 2016 11:39am |
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| tyrannosauROSS Member Since: 24 Jun 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 136
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mikeh501... yes I agree... looks like the Smartpass is the addition that makes the system "Great"... although it still doesnt allow me to link the batteries.
Plus... at £190ish per unit... its getting very very expensive!! To get the full functionality of what I want to do, if i go C-Tek it seams like I'm going to have to spend +£400. and then there is the fuse box, cable, USB outputs etc etc.... suddenly it will be +£550 by the time its all finished!!! EEK!!!! ChrisCM... it sounds like you run a very similar set up to me... although I am going to try to get two large ish batteries in the battery box and probity mount all my electronic wizardry to a board and then to the dog guard.... unless someone else has a great idea of where to put all this stuff!!! ChirsCM, once you have discharged your 50Ah battery, how long does it take to charge again using your system? Ross |
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29th Jul 2016 12:14pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971
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You're talking about running your winch from the second battery. That's a very unusual arrangement. Generally you want it as close to the alternator as possible and it's not a problem drawing the main battery down because your engine is running whilst you're winching and you need to let the winch rest every now and then anyway. 5 minutes of winching is round about similar to a day of fridge.
If your engine isn't running and you need the winch, you've got bigger problems. Charging rate. The only thing you're really going to have running from the second battery is a fridge and that's maybe going to use 10% of the Ctek's capacity. The Ctek should be able to charge the battery (if their marketing bumf is to be believed) quicker than charging it straight from the alternator but that really depends on the battery. Batteries will initially take lots of current but a little way in to their charging curve it will drop down massively. If you need more current then there are other DC/DC chargers out there - Durite do them (I think that's 20A), Ring do a 30A one and there are some Australian ones that do higher currents too. However... there are plenty of split charge systems using standard batteries and standard relays that work just fine and at a fraction of the cost. Would I like an Odyssey battery? Yes. Am I actually going to buy one? Unlikely, for my Defender at least. |
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29th Jul 2016 1:11pm |
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