Glynparry25 wrote:

mse wrote:

But actually camel trophy weren't standard cars...land rover did a lot to upgrade them mechanically and in design. Something the did ot do in g4 as the wanted STD saleable cars (which is fine) camel was about showing what the can do.

News to me.

Engine was a 200Tdi followed by 300Tdi..., (They weren't modified in any way)
Mantec snorkel (As on G4)
Mantec Steering guard (As on G4)
Roof rack (as on G4)
Expedition gear (as on G4)
Winch (as on G4)
Mantec load area cage (as on G4)

Mantec Tank guard (Not needed on Defender as much as Discovery)
Twin shock setup on rear (Not needed on Defender as it has a higher losd rating)
Bull bar (Not alowed to fit them on new vehicles)

Safety Devices roll cage.... Probably the only big difference.

The publicity was that they were 'Standard' vehicles, look what they can do.... not here are 'extensivly modified' vehicles, look what they can do after you have spent another small fortune on it.

Rover Group Marketing Director Martin Runnacles wrote:

"We have enjoyed a unique relationship with the Camel Trophy event over almost two decades and it has played a major role in sustaining the image of Land Rover as the manufacturer of the best 4x4's in the world. However, with the changing character of the event it will no longer provide us with an active demonstration of Land Rover's brand essence - limitless capability. We wish Camel Trophy every success with their new format. As for Land Rover, future activities will concentrate on our customer base with the emphasis very much on rugged off-road adventure."

I agree, the end of Camel trophy was because of links to tobaco etc, but Land Rover had already pulled out a year before any of that happened...

Glyn

mse wrote:

I remember going into SVO and seening them prep them up - they would almost fully break them down (from the ones i saw) and rebuild them. HD suspension (which was custom made) other components were upgraded. Roll cage was not standard or an option and was made - as was the roof rack which in earlier events was bolted onto the roll cage.

mse wrote:

The Freelander even had no production special kit put on...one easy example was the front and rear winch and steering/skid guard.

mse wrote:

As for pulling it...they new years in advance (and plan that far), but there were other reasons, corporate image, environmental, cost of the scheme, new owners that were as (if not more important) than the tobaco advertising ban

Corporate image..... If you watch them all you can see why LR gave up and stopped supplying vehicles.
Enviromental..... Complete rubbish- They barely broke the grass/ snow in the last 2 events.
Cost of the scheme....... Irrelevant when you have vehicles given to you and huge sponsors like Camel.
New owners were WBI, producers of Camel Trophy clothing and watches, their parent company was a tobacco manufacturer, so couldn't continue the sponsorship.

[quote="mse2]One of the design priniciples of the G4 was that the event had to inspire and show capability and responsbility but that you needed to be able to go in and buy all the parts used from an LR dealer and have fitted...this was not possible in the camel days.[/quote]

Yes and no. If you walk into your Land Rover dealership and ask for them to source and fit a Safety Devices roll cage.... they would. I know because I did this and they would have done it.... I didn't take them up on the offer as they wanted 4 times more than I could get the work done elsewhere.

Camel Trophy was one of the main reasons I got so enthusiastic about Land Rovers, and when I wanted a Camel Discovery I realised I wouldn't be able to afford one so started looking into upgrading my Discovery to the same spec. I spent months on end reserching the vehicles, talking to people on the origional events, people who own Camel Discoverys and even spent hours looking over them. I prety much know them inside out..... never got round to making mine into one in the end as buying a cage and fitting it would have cost 4 times more than I bought the Discovery for in the first place.

Glyn

mse wrote:

I think you have started to prove my point on the modified vehicles...all of this (and more) was a developement of SVO and in no way standard etc etc.

mse wrote:

As for safety Devices - that came about because SVO contracted them (as they still do have the ability to instruct companies to make kit for special vehicles)

mse wrote:

As for the environmental impact - only the last possbily two event werent as agressive (but still were and carried the image before) - but that was for environmental and image reasons and to show the freelander. Dont underestimate this - im sorry if you think rubbish, but you couldnt be further from the mark

mse wrote:

Cost of the Scheme to Land Rover was HUGE - as was G4 which is why it was stopped. I think you underestimate this element and the cost born by Land Rover - whilst sponsorship helped - this was to some extent a loss leading marketing thing to improve the brand and get people in.

MSE wrote:

There was a lot of other media pressure around the Rover Group and LR at the time lots of changes in mentality etc...its difficult to remember all that now - but a more hippy approach was going mainstream

mse wrote:

The new owners - were Land Rovers new owners!! not Camel - who didnt dictate LR's policy

mse wrote:

And you miss the point on equipment - Land Rover wanted the G4 equipment to be direct LR approved kit so it could be aspirational and achievable for G4 from new and whilst within the warranty life of the car (eg the time you go to the dealer). Its all about lifestyle choice.Whatever you say Camel was not.
Yes some kit you could get in the catalogue (although not always identical) - the majority you couldnt. Yes you could then ask a dealer to source it (which most would probably) but that wasnt a Land Rover thing, didnt carry any of the warranties etc and was adhoc and bespoke and only if you knew could you get it. You highlight this on things like the suspension.

mse wrote:

But i suppose i was fortunate that at the time of Camel I knew a lot of people directly involved in it and the spin off links and was very fortunate to play around with some stuff not 3rd hand - but actually first hand inside Land Rover, certainly more family and friend connections than i have now!...i even actually have the t-shirts!

I was given a Camel Trophy t-shirt from one of the competitors from the event... who better to pass on the experiences of the vehicle than the person who spent days sweating and bleeding on it? Or will it be the guy who gets paid to fit parts? Also, I belive that getitng in and around a vehicle that is the same as it was back then is still 1st hand.


As a note... When people get a special project in work they will tend to exagerate it.... What will they say...

"I am working on next years CT Land Rovers... they are just the same as normal ones"
or
"I am working on next years CT Land Rovers... They are awesome, we are upgrading EVERYTHING!"

I know people who's family think they are fighting Taliban on the front line every day they are away, but realistically they are in a ISO container out of harms way in camp Bastion.

Fact of life is that many people exagerate to make themselves look and feel good around friends and family- no one wants to be Mr no-one (Little cog in the big machine).

Glyn