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JR

Member Since: 07 Dec 2012
Location: Auchtermuchty
Posts: 532

1984 Defender 90 200 Tdi SW Coniston Green

TD5 Head Gasket failing!

This is what I have just posted on the D2 forum for my road car (my Defender is a 1984 90SW). I hope it's ok to widen my info search by posting here too, if not I'll take a smacking later!

I have a sneaking suspicion that my head gasket is on its way out!

Symptoms:
Normal temp is just above Low but now goes to Half on motorways or when under load (AllySport Motorsport radiator)
No sign of water in oil (recent change)
Overflow bottle was full of clean pink fluid (just had thermostat changed as a precaution)

I studied Agricultural Engineering 30yrs ago and used to build and maintain my own rally cars so I'm reasonably sure of the diagnosis! But what is the usual repair prognosis with the TD5, this is my first and I've only had it since September. My motor is modified, it is decat'd, centre box delete, egr delete AllySport big Intercooler and an Alive chip aimed at Torque and mpg rather than pure HP. It also had a Terraclean a few weeks ago (see my other post).

Any ideas and comments greatly received as I can't talk to my Indy Garage till Monday!

7th Mar 2015 7:14pm

Fatboy Slim

Member Since: 04 Feb 2008
Location: Bridgend
Posts: 1006

Hmm, doesn't sound like a great deal wrong there. Td5 heads and gaskets generally fail giving the symptom of a huge amount of pressure in the system and blowing the water out.

Whats your thermostat like?

The standard rad is more than capable of cooling a Td5, even when fairly highly tuned. If you have a lazer thermometer check the temperatures of the top and bottom hoses when the engine is up to running temp. Should be about 10degC difference. Less and the rad isn't cooling as it should. Much more than 13degC difference and your looking at a flow problem. Personally I wouldn't have anything allisport given to me after the experience I had with one of their intercoolers and would be looking at the rad first.

7th Mar 2015 8:05pm

JR

Member Since: 07 Dec 2012
Location: Auchtermuchty
Posts: 532

As I said above, I got the thermostat changed a few weeks ago because I couldn't get any heat out of the car during the cold snap, the needle didn't get above cold all day!

The rad expansion bottle is now full when hot (will check level tomorrow when cold) which has not happened before so maybe some water is starting to be blown out.

As for the other mods, they were all done before I got the car and were not the main reason I went for it. 5 new tyres, complete brake overhaul, new clutch (minus spigot bearing unfortunately), new exhaust and new rear 1/2 chassis were what sold it, the engine mods were a bonus.

I still think the gasket is on its way out but I was wondering if people could give me an idea of normal TD5 repair requirements, I remember seeing ads full of TD5 cylinder heads when they first came out....

7th Mar 2015 8:42pm

Lou Sparts

Member Since: 15 Apr 2012
Location: Kent
Posts: 1501

2005 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Zambezi Silver

Over cooling is rarely a symptom of head gasket failure ! I would be inclined to lose the " Motorsport" radiator as the Td5 never runs very warm with the standard radiator.

What other symptoms are there, are you loosing coolant ? Have you had a sniffer test done to see if there are combustion gasses in the cooling system ? 2005 Td5 90 XS

Steve

7th Mar 2015 8:58pm

ian series 1

Member Since: 17 Nov 2014
Location: south
Posts: 3127

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 CSW Bonatti Grey

I had the head gasket go on my 02 discovery, classis symptoms were top hose solid as a rock, temp gauge would shoot up in the red, then return to normal.
A sniffer test showed up with nothing, coolant was clean,and still nice and pink, no oil, but it was obvious it was head gasket,

I took the head off and found the common problem of the plastic head locator dowels had deteriorated and caused the head to move enough to cause the head gasket to let go around No 4 and 5 cylinder, this was also the same problem on the early Freelanders with the 1800 petrol engine.

If you do the gasket, fit the revised metal dowels.
i would have liked to have had the head skimmed, but it's not really supposed to be done on a TD5, I ran it round to the chaps in the local dealer and they told me they had seen worse, and re fitted worse!

So it went back on!
While I was at it I found the circular threaded bung that's under the centre of the exhaust manifold was very loose and weeping.
On a long run you could always smell coolant, but it would never show up anywhere?
I put it down to this leaking, and the heat from the manifold evaporating it before it showed itself.

To do the head gasket is not a bad job on a td5 to be honest, it's just the size and weight of the thing! I would recommend an engine lift, makes life a lot easier.
you can re- use the head bolts, so no need to by new, just the required gaskets, head and manifold,and change the manifold studs as these have a reputation for breaking.

Ian 80" 80" 86" 88" 90"

Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered.

7th Mar 2015 9:20pm

ian series 1

Member Since: 17 Nov 2014
Location: south
Posts: 3127

A few pictures........ Gives a rough idea of what to expect

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge 80" 80" 86" 88" 90"

Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered.

7th Mar 2015 9:35pm

JR

Member Since: 07 Dec 2012
Location: Auchtermuchty
Posts: 532

Lou Sparts wrote:
Over cooling is rarely a symptom of head gasket failure ! I would be inclined to lose the " Motorsport" radiator as the Td5 never runs very warm with the standard radiator.

What other symptoms are there, are you loosing coolant ? Have you had a sniffer test done to see if there are combustion gasses in the cooling system ?

True but the reason I mentioned it was to point out where the needle normally sits on this vehicle. It has never moved an inch till now and now it's being erratic!

As to the other bits, this happened today, Saturday and that I won't be able to get to my garage until Monday.

7th Mar 2015 10:43pm

JR

Member Since: 07 Dec 2012
Location: Auchtermuchty
Posts: 532

ian series 1 wrote:
I had the head gasket go on my 02 discovery, classis symptoms were top hose solid as a rock, temp gauge would shoot up in the red, then return to normal.
A sniffer test showed up with nothing, coolant was clean,and still nice and pink, no oil, but it was obvious it was head gasket,

I took the head off and found the common problem of the plastic head locator dowels had deteriorated and caused the head to move enough to cause the head gasket to let go around No 4 and 5 cylinder, this was also the same problem on the early Freelanders with the 1800 petrol engine.

If you do the gasket, fit the revised metal dowels.
i would have liked to have had the head skimmed, but it's not really supposed to be done on a TD5, I ran it round to the chaps in the local dealer and they told me they had seen worse, and re fitted worse!

So it went back on!
While I was at it I found the circular threaded bung that's under the centre of the exhaust manifold was very loose and weeping.
On a long run you could always smell coolant, but it would never show up anywhere?
I put it down to this leaking, and the heat from the manifold evaporating it before it showed itself.

To do the head gasket is not a bad job on a td5 to be honest, it's just the size and weight of the thing! I would recommend an engine lift, makes life a lot easier.
you can re- use the head bolts, so no need to by new, just the required gaskets, head and manifold,and change the manifold studs as these have a reputation for breaking.

Ian

Thanks Ian, this was the sort of thing I was hoping for. Fortunately I won't be doing the job myself, for Compliance reasons I need to demonstrate that all the work is done by Garage. I was a bit worried that I might need a new head, I remember seeing loads advertised when the TD5 was fairly new.

7th Mar 2015 10:53pm

NickMc

Member Since: 01 Oct 2014
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1572

Have you looked at the water pump?

12th Mar 2015 2:00am

JR

Member Since: 07 Dec 2012
Location: Auchtermuchty
Posts: 532

Funny you should say that, my Indy had the same idea!

Previous owner has put a couple of gauges in the motor, oil pressure & water temperature, it seems the top hose wasn't shortened enough when the put the gauge gubbins in and there is just the slightest kink! So at least I have an answer and the gauges are coming out!!!

Thanks everyone for your help...

14th Mar 2015 4:35pm

NickMc

Member Since: 01 Oct 2014
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1572

Water pumps do give some bother on them, seeing a lot of them
Giving up as they get up the years now. As a few people have said the plug in between the rear of the exhaust manifolds is a stupid idea and leaks.

14th Mar 2015 8:17pm

ozzy57

Member Since: 14 Feb 2014
Location: Farnborough
Posts: 221

ian series 1 wrote:
I had the head gasket go on my 02 discovery, classis symptoms were top hose solid as a rock, temp gauge would shoot up in the red, then return to normal.
A sniffer test showed up with nothing, coolant was clean,and still nice and pink, no oil, but it was obvious it was head gasket,

I took the head off and found the common problem of the plastic head locator dowels had deteriorated and caused the head to move enough to cause the head gasket to let go around No 4 and 5 cylinder, this was also the same problem on the early Freelanders with the 1800 petrol engine.

If you do the gasket, fit the revised metal dowels.
i would have liked to have had the head skimmed, but it's not really supposed to be done on a TD5, I ran it round to the chaps in the local dealer and they told me they had seen worse, and re fitted worse!

So it went back on!
While I was at it I found the circular threaded bung that's under the centre of the exhaust manifold was very loose and weeping.
On a long run you could always smell coolant, but it would never show up anywhere?
I put it down to this leaking, and the heat from the manifold evaporating it before it showed itself.

To do the head gasket is not a bad job on a td5 to be honest, it's just the size and weight of the thing! I would recommend an engine lift, makes life a lot easier.
you can re- use the head bolts, so no need to by new, just the required gaskets, head and manifold,and change the manifold studs as these have a reputation for breaking.

Ian

Exactly the same on mine. I was mildly surprised to see what looked like two of the cylinder bores had been machined by the valves as the head moved backwards.

Click image to enlarge

DO NOT reuse the old head bolts. They are stretch bolts. It wasn't me!

15th Mar 2015 11:46am

993porky

Member Since: 02 May 2011
Location: sunderland
Posts: 170

JR
just a thought the last fortnight my td5 has been using water about 750ml a day was thinking head gasket, but on inspection today realised the water. Was weeping out of top and bottom hose going to engine, it turns out which I didn't know over time the anti freeze and aluminium on flange where pipe pushes over reacts or oxides and you end up with hard gunge on flanges and pipes lift slightly not getting a proper seal under pressure,so today I removed pipes and cleaned crap away. So turns out it wasn't my head gasket,hope I've made post easy to read

15th Mar 2015 10:53pm

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