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adiep

Member Since: 18 Nov 2012
Location: Gibraltar
Posts: 204

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White

Have No TC/ABS - shall i go for LSD or Locker?

Hi guys, to my dismay my second hand 2008 110 doesnt have ABS/TC.. So im wondering about enhancements.

I quite like the idea of limited slip diffs, as they appear to come into action without intervention (similar to TC) but seems like everyone goes for air lockers - which doesnt appeal as i have to turn it on, which might be too late.

As stated, I dont have ABS or TC.

I dont enter competitions, and use the car for mountain trails, sandy beaches, offroad trips around spain and morroco and playing about with the local 4x4 club... but im not doing mad off-road circuits.

Would a LSD be of use to me, or should i just get a locker...

What would the LSD bring to the party, they do seem cheaper...is it worth just doing the rear?

25th Feb 2013 8:37am

Landlord

Member Since: 27 Oct 2009
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 582

Can't advice on LSD's but my ARB Locker has performed faultlessly for the past 5 years. You also get the added advantage of having a built in compressor for inflating tyres.

You can switch an ARB on at any speed (obviously a safe speed not on tarmac) without stopping. Like any manual traction aid read the road ahead and if theres a possibility of reduced traction then use diff lock / ARB rather than get stuck then use try and use. 2007 TD5 90 Hard Top

25th Feb 2013 9:13am

MartinK

Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2664

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Orkney Grey

I also have a County spec sith no ABS/TC. From what I have read, if I was considering "improvements" in this area, I would do an Ashcroft torsen Diff:

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic13545.html Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)

25th Feb 2013 9:14am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16933

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

My '07 110 DC again doesn't have ABS/TC (by choice, since I personally don't want either). Performance with open diffs is entirely adequate under almost all circumstances.

If you do need an enhancement I personally recommend the Ashcroft ATB ('Torsen' type) diffs. I have upgraded, but this was due to the failure of the original 2-pinion front diff, rather than due to any shortcomings. It cannot be denied that the ATBs provide better traction under difficult conditions.

A further advantage of the ATBs is that they are fit-and-forget. You don't have to lock them up, they don't affect steering, and no additional gubbins (like compressors and plumbing) are needed.

There are threads already on the forum discussing the merits of Ashcroft ATBs very thoroughly.

25th Feb 2013 9:26am

big steve

Member Since: 24 Dec 2009
Location: hertfordshire
Posts: 2456

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Montalcino Red

if you are wanting it for both front or back i would either go for lockers all round or lsd in the back locker in the front but my set up is lockers front and rear ashcroft lockers are the way to go in my opinion mine are arbs but i bought these before ashcroft had released them ?

steve 2015 2.2 tdci hardtop xs
3.2 conversion DONE 238bhp and 707nm torque and thats just the start ;-P
hybrid turbo in build -done ready to fit
ashcroft atb in transfer box
6 speed auto in build

25th Feb 2013 11:13am

adiep

Member Since: 18 Nov 2012
Location: Gibraltar
Posts: 204

the Ashcroft ATB's look like what im after. How much for a pair?

25th Feb 2013 11:17am

big steve

Member Since: 24 Dec 2009
Location: hertfordshire
Posts: 2456

why not speak to dave at ashcrodt and ask him what he thinks you need he is very good with advise and will help you with it all

steve 2015 2.2 tdci hardtop xs
3.2 conversion DONE 238bhp and 707nm torque and thats just the start ;-P
hybrid turbo in build -done ready to fit
ashcroft atb in transfer box
6 speed auto in build

25th Feb 2013 11:21am

adiep

Member Since: 18 Nov 2012
Location: Gibraltar
Posts: 204

ok, "need" is probably not the correct word, "want" is more like it

25th Feb 2013 11:26am

big steve

Member Since: 24 Dec 2009
Location: hertfordshire
Posts: 2456

ok lol well i would go for lockers as you can engage them when you need them ?

also you have true locked drive train then 2015 2.2 tdci hardtop xs
3.2 conversion DONE 238bhp and 707nm torque and thats just the start ;-P
hybrid turbo in build -done ready to fit
ashcroft atb in transfer box
6 speed auto in build

25th Feb 2013 11:30am

adiep

Member Since: 18 Nov 2012
Location: Gibraltar
Posts: 204

big steve wrote:
ok lol well i would go for lockers as you can engage them when you need them ?

also you have true locked drive train then

Well.. not really wanting to have to engage, would prefer TC as it's working without any intervention, same goes for the ATB.

25th Feb 2013 11:32am

SteveS

Member Since: 05 Oct 2010
Location: Devon & Berkshire
Posts: 388

2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black

Before you make your choice I suggest that you look at the many threads there are here to make sure you're getting the right thing for you.

I run ARB lockers front and rear but before fitting them I considered all the different types and their benefits. For example:

like a manual gearbox/auto gearbox debate do you want to have absolute control of your locking or are you happy to leave it to the automated systems - do you understand what the characteristics of these various systems are?
What surfaces are you planning to travel over? Different lockers will have benefits on mud, sand, tarmac, variable surfaces etc
Do you want to be able to steer with your front locker engaged?
Why do you you want torque sensing lockers on the rear?

For me the answers to these questions led me to decide that I wanted the absoute control of a manual system, one where I knew exactly what the wheels would be doing as they would be locked together and torque/drive would not be moving around the car dynamically (for me this is about when to put the lockers in OR to leave them off - automated systems you do not have this choice). Torque sensing has its place and there are some very strong arguments for using it on the front axle at the very least. All systems are a step up from open diffs and (ARB) lockers front and rear will probably only make the difference in that situation where you need to move from 99% to 100%.

It is a personal choice at the end of the day

PS - as the other poster said having on-board air may be a consideration for you: it was for me

25th Feb 2013 10:08pm

adiep

Member Since: 18 Nov 2012
Location: Gibraltar
Posts: 204

SteveS wrote:
Before you make your choice I suggest that you look at the many threads there are here to make sure you're getting the right thing for you.

I run ARB lockers front and rear but before fitting them I considered all the different types and their benefits. For example:

like a manual gearbox/auto gearbox debate do you want to have absolute control of your locking or are you happy to leave it to the automated systems - do you understand what the characteristics of these various systems are?
What surfaces are you planning to travel over? Different lockers will have benefits on mud, sand, tarmac, variable surfaces etc
Do you want to be able to steer with your front locker engaged?
Why do you you want torque sensing lockers on the rear?

For me the answers to these questions led me to decide that I wanted the absoute control of a manual system, one where I knew exactly what the wheels would be doing as they would be locked together and torque/drive would not be moving around the car dynamically (for me this is about when to put the lockers in OR to leave them off - automated systems you do not have this choice). Torque sensing has its place and there are some very strong arguments for using it on the front axle at the very least. All systems are a step up from open diffs and (ARB) lockers front and rear will probably only make the difference in that situation where you need to move from 99% to 100%.

It is a personal choice at the end of the day

PS - as the other poster said having on-board air may be a consideration for you: it was for me

Driving on sand, gravel and mud mostly - typical stuff you would find in Spain/Morocco.

Yes, i want to be able to steer with the lock engaged.

I dont see why you need to know if its locked or not, is there some doubt that the LSD mechanism actually works? Im quite sure the design works and that if a wheel starts slipping then the other wheel gets some bias, so all it needs no?

Anyway, with the money saved, I can buy a winch (incase i get stuck) an air pump (for the dingy) that plugs into the fag lighter

25th Feb 2013 10:26pm

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