 | Home > Off Topic > "Clean Air Zone" |
 
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| BrickBox Member Since: 05 Oct 2021 Location: Wales Posts: 622   
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https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-a-clean-air-zone 2008 2.4 110 Utility XS.
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1st Jul 2022 2:45am |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 552  
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I live near Manchester and their clean air zone is huge. It is currently "Under review" due to people kicking off at overpaid ars*wipes deciding we should pay £9 per day that you dare to drive within that area.
I am only about 300m from the zone and this has really pi**ed me of. I am sick of politicians deciding they can dictate how I live. |
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1st Jul 2022 7:07am |
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| Poulstonb Member Since: 30 Jun 2022 Location: Styal Posts: 87
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The clean air zone is being introduced in various cities around the UK . Certain high polluting vehicles have to pay to enter these zones .
I myself live in Manchester which has looked to introduce one of these zone but are now reviewing it . Fingers crossed it dosent happen as I also drive a transit van . |
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1st Jul 2022 6:52pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 3997 
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I don’t think (hope) the Manc one is going to happen. They have now forecast that air quality will improve of its own accord to within legal limits as people generally buy cleaner and cleaner vehicles. Why they couldn’t work that out before spending millions on the signs and cameras will no doubt remain a mystery. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
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1st Jul 2022 7:18pm |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3755  
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Yes, there's a bit on the web about this stuff, but it's a bit vague & it's hard to find what the charges would be.
Would I be correct in saying that it's only a "Class D" zone that would affect private cars, so on this basis & you are affected, what would be the charge for entering such a zone every day? Pickles. |
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1st Jul 2022 11:51pm |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 552
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I think with my 300tdi it was going to be £9 per day. That wasn't going to be at the introduction of the charging but 12 months later as it was a private car.
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2nd Jul 2022 6:36am |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 3997
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One of the issues we have is that many Defenders (luckily not mine) are registered as commercials, even some of the late Puma Station Wagons, so are affected more widely. It is nigh on impossible to get the categorisation changed once the vehicle has been registered. Ironically, the reason late Pumas were registered as commercial was to avoid the very high road tax that the passenger versions were attracting. Mine for example is well over £600 per year presently. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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2nd Jul 2022 7:22am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16884 
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I think you will find that the reason late Defenders became N1 was to enable production to continue without having to be re-engineered to have airbags and all the other stuff that became mandatory for M1 vehicles. The tax was a consequence not a cause.
The fact the Defenders are taxed as LGVs does not make them goods vehicles, they are legally Dual Purpose Vehicles. It is a shame that the cleam air authorityies seem unable to comprehend this. |
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2nd Jul 2022 1:49pm |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3755
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Thank You for your cost estimate, which at that rate appears to be not inconsiderable, would that be about the cost for a family car?. Have you any idea what the cost (daily rate)would be for a family's "normal" car, that say someone has to commute in every day. Like I said, whilst I've heard of these "clean zones", I'm not aware of any in Aussie at this stage, but I'm sure they will come, so I was just wondering about the cost. Is there a stipulation/regulation/difference etc for cars to be Euro 4, 5, or 6? Regards, Pickles. |
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2nd Jul 2022 10:38pm |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 552
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Hi Pickles,
That £9 charge is due to the 300tdi being older diesel technology and you are correct with your assumption of the rating affecting the charge. My other drive is a 2010 Seat Ibiza 1 4 petrol, which currently would not be charged. I don't often use the Defender. The thing that really p**ses me off is that if I take the Defender to my mams to help with garden waste removal etc, that will cost me £9 for a round trip of 18 miles. To attend a conveniently local LR meeting - 9 mile round trip and a £9 charge. I could see this changing its venue to one located outside the zone. I would expect a few small businesses would suffer a reduction in footfall if they are located just inside the zone. I think I, like many, am just totally fed-up with all politicians. They seem to be overpaid, out of touch, self-righteous a**e wipes! |
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3rd Jul 2022 8:53am |
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| rockster57 Member Since: 15 Nov 2014 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 937 
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I live in Bradford and was faced with an announced imminent clean air zone. As I owned a 2011 “N1” 110SW I looked into my liability for the charge. I soon ran into a brick wall. I agree with Blackwolf in that the taxation class does not make the Defender a goods vehicle. My SW was no more a goods vehicle than estate cars, people carriers etc. with a varying ability to carry a load according to how many seats are folded. The Defender’s liability for CAZ charges is based on irrelevant bureaucratic vehicle excise based reasons. Whilst a Defender is a “dual purpose vehicle”, that classification is only relevant to “construction and use” based legislation. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/3/made The basis of liability under CAZ regulations is vehicle excise classes, a different thing entirely. “Dual Purpose Vehicle” is not a taxation class under vehicle excise legislation (see https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/g...asses.pdf) Unfortunately it is taxation classes in vehicle excise legislation that Local Authorities have been obliged by the government to use to determine CAZ liability. You cannot amend your N1 classification to M1 (should you wish to). It must remain as the classification declared on the vehicle’s certificate of conformity. Convenient to powerful authorities? Yes. Fair to a small powerless group of owners? Absolutely not! Right, I’ll get off my soapbox now  |
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3rd Jul 2022 11:45am |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4485 
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If you changed your Puma from N1 to M1 over here, the road tax would go from €1080 to €2350 per year. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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3rd Jul 2022 3:46pm |
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| SJM2018 Member Since: 06 Jul 2018 Location: Bristol Posts: 296 
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Despite having recently been stung by a CAZ, I do agree with the idea / principle, it’s just useless council implementation that
 me off.
Living in Bristol and walking / cycling to work, next to massive queues of commuters, polluting and congesting the city (which is the real issue for people’s health) is horrible. In our office, everyone of us that lives in the city walks, cycles, scooters or gets the bus (with 95% of my colleagues who live outside the city driving in). Given that I rarely use my vehicle during rush hour, why should I have to pay? I already pay the inflated house prices and council tax (that BCC up the wall), to be able to live walking distance from work.
CAZs in their current form are a total scam. They should charge all “out of town” commuters driving non-EVs, provide viable alternatives like free park and rides and provide useful EV chargers (like loads of 3kwh that you can leave plugged in all day) [maybe have exceptions for low paid workers, NHS staff, police, fire, etc]. That’s the only real way to improve air quality… but it’s not about that, it’s just another revenue source for the council to waste on nonsense. Edit: Plus provide grants for people to insulate their homes / upgrade from single glazing. 2011 CSW XS 90 |
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3rd Jul 2022 9:58pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3344 
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A little off topic but near where I live, in Norwich we have a Lord Mayors procession. Since I was a kid, this involves dancers, bands, majorettes, companies, organisations and charities. There was a mixture of pedestrians and vehicles. Some of the floats were very impressive until the local council, a year or two before Covid decided to ban all lorries and vehicles with an ICE. This was because of pollution. I think the Lord Mayor rides in a Tesla or something like that now, but we don’t have many electric trucks in the sticks where I live.
Now in Norwich, there is no clean air zone and it’s just as well as we only get the reject buses that you guys in London and elsewhere chuck out. A large proportion are twenty years old (02 plates) and I get they re-engine them, but they are not hybrid or anywhere near battery powered. We have never had many new buses. Pollution in Castle Meadow (in the city and part of the route of said procession) when it was measured was terrible. The only vehicles allowed in this area are buses taxis and cycles. So our local council ban trucks for one procession a year (probably 12-15 trucks at most) yet let’s the buses and taxis choke the streets for the other 364 days. You really couldn’t make it up. As a post script, I used to enjoy the steel band. Now they always rode on the back of a truck and artic trailer. I haven’t seen the new non-ICE procession, but I guess the Steel Band would find it challenging on a bike  |
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3rd Jul 2022 10:51pm |
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