 | Home > Technical > Silly towbar question… |
 
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20978  
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The set up you have now is a ball and pin set up. (I have the same).
You really need a NATO type hitch iirc for a Sankey with an eye type draw bar. Blackwolf on here will likely know more about this, but with the ball and pin set up, the pin arrangement is more recovery related than for towing with. ____\We|Will|Win/___ ____/🇬🇧🇺🇸\____ _//*⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰*\\_ |
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13th Sep 2025 10:03pm |
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| Goldenballs Member Since: 22 Apr 2021 Location: UK Posts: 91
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Good to know, thank you. I wasn’t sure if the pin was suitable for a nato hitch.
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13th Sep 2025 10:08pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20978
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You could probably get away with it off road, but on road I wouldn’t recommend it.
The set up you have should be rated around 3.5T I would say, most are, but there are some that are 5T.  ____\We|Will|Win/___
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13th Sep 2025 10:16pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17947 
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That appears to be a rather tatty budget ball and pin hitch, the pin will be designed to tow a commercial (i.e., not military) rotating ring coupling probably from 1.1/8" to 2" diameter. It is totally unsuitable for towing a trailer with a fixed (non-rotating) 76mm NATO lunette since firstly the lunette almost certainly won't fit in the jaw and secondly any non-rotating ring or lunette MUST be towed with a rotating pintle or hitch, not a fixed jaw.
Your hitch should be rated to tow 3500kg on the ball and probably the same on the pin but its condition and apparent age makes it hard to be certain. If your Defender is recent enough to need type approved towing equipment then both the attachment and coupling must be appropriately marked, which includes their max loads. Due to the lack of obligatory markings you could not legally use that hitch (or drop plate) on a vehicle that requires type approved towing equipment. Your coupling is also far too low to tow a military trailer. To do so it must be mounted at cross member level which in turn necessitates a four-bolt BS AU24 mounting pattern, not the BS AU114a two-bolt pattern you have. If your Defender is a Td5 or TDCi you must also fit a reinforcing plate between the pintle and cross member since the latter is not strong enough without. In practice the only satisfactory and safe attachment for towing a 76mm lunette is a genuine Bradley/DB NATO pintle. |
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13th Sep 2025 11:14pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3615  
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What the OP has is a Dixon Bate 3.5 Tonne Pin and Towball DA2123 that I believe was what JLR offered when choosing the tow pack option.
I have regularly towed 2 tonnes using the tow ball of one of those (proper tongue weight) and managed it well. My Nato hitch has been on a shelf for quite some time after seeing one being pulled off from a cross member notwithstanding having a 6mm steel backing plate. What happened was the pintle/hitch were not properly greased, and binded in a very tight turn. The trailer was not extremely heavy, but was very long. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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14th Sep 2025 5:27am |
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| Mdm Member Since: 11 Sep 2013 Location: Sunny Lancashire Posts: 1664
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as the others have said you need the smaller of the 2 main types for sale. a good used one is fine as most have done little work.
avoid the cheap chinese ebay ones or the cheap combi ones as they are not suitable for a penman. you have a couple of options for mounting them to your landy. the most common way is on a drop plate so you can remove it when not needed and not back your knees on it. penmans have a stainless steel tub and tend to be in a better condition than many older sankey trls  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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14th Sep 2025 8:44am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17947
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I'm pretty certain that the OP's coupling is not a DB coupling, the profile is different around the base of the ball spigot and the pin is certainly not DB. Hence my comments above. I am more than happy to be proved wrong, but it certainly doesn't look like a DB or Bradley product to me. Any reputable manufacturer's BS AU114a ball should be rated to 3.5.tonnes gross trailed weight (the maximum that can legally be towed either on a ball or on a BS AU114a coupling) but some are lower rated these tend to be those designed for ATVs etc and are not BS AU114a fittings. If the manufacturer of the OP's coupling cannot be determined the max load on the pin will remain uncertain however if it was DB or Bradley coupling it would also be 3.5 tonnes. |
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14th Sep 2025 9:44am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3615
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Very eagled eye blackwolf. Indeed after closer inspection of the picture, it does look like not a genuine DB. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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14th Sep 2025 11:47am |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2685  
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Don't forget that the NATO hitch is designed to rotate during towing to prevent the towing vehicle going over if the trailer flips.
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14th Sep 2025 4:36pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17947
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That isn't the reason it has to rotate. Given that the later Sankeys and all the Penmans have fixed lunettes the pintle has to rotate to allow the trailer and the towing vehicle to cross any kind of undulations. If it didn't, the pintle will (probably) just get ripped off the rather flimsy rear cross-member.
The change from a fixed pintle and rotating lunette (as used on earlier Sankeys such as the 'narrowtrack') to a fixed lunette and rotating pintle (as used in recent years) is because with the earlier arrangement once the vehicle and trailer articulate to a sharp angle to each other, such as either a very sharp turn or more commonly a near jack-knife, the rotating pintle drops to assume a vertical orientation from which it cannot self-recover, and when the angle lessens either the shaft of the lunette bends to a 90 degree angle, or the rear cross-member bends. Either is very expensive. The important thing to remember is that whether on or off the road, either the lunette or the pintle must rotate but not both. It has nothing whatsoever to do with roll-overs, and more likely that not if you roll either the vehicle or the trailer both will go regardless, and you will suffer! |
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14th Sep 2025 4:59pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20978
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Very articulate explanation there BW.
It’s shocking how many people don’t load a trailer properly, and that’s often the cause of snaking by loading to the rear of the axle(s) or to the rear, a 110 also would have more stability and weight with a higher weight tow, than a 90. Having a dynamic load such as livestock is even more fruity, not long ago a livestock box went over with cattle in it on the news. I still think a lot of people tow too fast, yes there is the regulatory speed limits, but that’s just a max, it doesn’t mean Ti say it’s safe to tow at those speeds. My tow ball and pin is a Dixon Bate, and has the certification plate on the top. ____\We|Will|Win/___ ____/🇬🇧🇺🇸\____ _//*⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰*\\_ |
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14th Sep 2025 7:08pm |
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| HardCharger Member Since: 03 Mar 2013 Location: Manila Posts: 792  
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Is Dixon Bate still in business? I tried looking for their website and what I got was less than convincing. How about Bradley? I only saw their name in passing somewhere and here on this thread.
Pardon my ignorance on the matter as I don't really tow but having such knowledge can unlock possibilities or maybe help someone else. No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy |
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15th Sep 2025 8:56am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17947
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Yes and no!
Dixon-Bate was split up in 2009 with the trailer business being sold to Mersea Trailers and the towing products business and Dixon-Bate trade name being sold to Bradley Doublelock Ltd. In 2014 Bradley Doublelock Ltd was itself sold to the German firm, AL-KO Kober, better known just as AL-KO, and what remains of the Dixon-Bate and Bradley businesses now operate out of AL-KO's premises in Southam. There does however seem to be some internet detritus still around from the earlier days. |
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15th Sep 2025 12:01pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20978
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On the bright side there is plenty of stock around so I can see, they are nice bits of kit.
It is a bit of a pain that NAS tow steps sit that bit higher than wanted, yet a non NAS spec drop plate and tie bars sit too low like a plough as well. ____\We|Will|Win/___ ____/🇬🇧🇺🇸\____ _//*⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰*\\_ |
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15th Sep 2025 6:26pm |
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