 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Does a 12,000 lb winch require second battery? |
 
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| drewster Member Since: 13 Jun 2011 Location: south coast brockenhurst Posts: 226   
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i would sugest that if you are using the winch to recover youeself occasionaly then a numax cvx 1000 cca bat would do the job
but if you are going to do lots of recouery work then two batts would be a good idea again numax do a bat witch you can get two in the batt box cheaper than oddasy or optima split charger is a definate with two batts t max is good but expensive but will give you the state of each batt one thing i would sugest imo is to change the altinator for a 100 amp one i only run on one batt but have upped my altinator as i very occasionaly use my winch |
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2nd Nov 2011 4:02pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16879  
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It really depends on how often and how hard you expect to use the winch, and how much of a hurry you're in when you do.
Conventional thought says that a twin battery set-up with a high output alternator and split charge system is necessary, and although ultimately it is desirable I personally do not think it is needed in normal circumstances. I personally favour the Superwinch Husky since its design is superior to almost all other electric winches (worm and gear drive, rather than epicyclic, fewer heat problems, etc), and have a Series 1 86" fitted with Huskys front and rear, and a Defender with a front Husky. I also run a Disco 2 with a Warn XD9000, which is nothing like such a good winch (it's rubbish by comparison in most respects!), but all three vehicles have a single battery setup, although the S1 has been upgraded to a 100A alternator. All have proved totally satisfactory for the purposes I use them - self recovery, vehicle recovery, loading trailers, and moving heavy objects on an occasional basis, although the Huskys are vastly preferable to the Warn (not easy to fit a Husky to a D2 though). Provided that you are mindful of the equipment you are asking to do the job, you will be OK. That means keeping the engine running when winching (fast idle ideally), allowing the battery to recover between pulls (which also gives the winch motor a chance to cool), and sensible rigging to keep the load on the winch down - remember that the battery will take less of a hammering if you rig a snatch block and halve the line speed an load, due to the non-linear increase in current with load (ie doubling the load more than doubles the current drawn). There is of course no reason why you shouldn't later upgrade the battery and charging system if you find it cannot cope. Remember that you will need a good battery, not one on its last legs. Also, use the heaviest gauge wire to connect the winch which you sensibly can (at least 50mm2 and ideally 75mm2) so that the voltage drop along the cable is minimised. If infrequent self-recovery is your main concern, remember that there are many advantages to a Tirfor; it is relatively cheap, incredibly versatile, and doesn't need the engine running. It will recover your vehicle even if the vehicle is upside-down or lost in 20' of water, something no vehicle-mounted winch will ever do. Also keeps you fit! |
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2nd Nov 2011 4:29pm |
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| cradgebank Member Since: 30 Dec 2008 Location: Nottingham Posts: 308  
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If it is for occasional recovery use, then a standard battery set up will be fine. Richard
Either a 90, 110 or 130. Discovery 5 |
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2nd Nov 2011 8:15pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8578
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Travelling as a solo vehicle in the hills you have to be more cautious to avoid getting stuck.
Sometimes it may well be better to take a different route to avoid getting stuck. If you start to get stuck it is better either to try and back out before you get stuck. Also consider a rear axle locker. We have one on our red 110 and we are convinced it has kept us moving where without we would have lost traction. If you do winch equip your vehicle be prepared to use it before you really get stuck and definitely need to use it, i.e. do not keep revving the engine digging even deeper holes for yourself. A winch is only any good if there is something to anchor it too. So if you are in barren type terrain you might need to deploy a ground anchor, be it a plough type, stake and pin or a buried wheel. Another idea would be an extension line for you winch. A plough type anchor can be difficult to set solo, so a wireless control might be useful. Next question, which end of vehicle do you fix the winch too? If at the front then you might be winching yourself even further into the mire. Rear mounted one? At least you know the ground you have just driven on is driveable. So do you go for two winches? Or do you go for a demountable winch? Battery or batteries? Most important thing is that battery/batteries are in good condition. The essential thing is that your battery is capable of starting your engine! If winching on a single battery, drain it and stall the engine you could be in deep poo poo. A winch dependent on load etc could draw say 400-500 amps. A high output alternator puts out 100 amps therefore a winch can take charge out of a battery faster then the alternator can put it in! Remember that the main priority of a battery is to start the engine! Yes you can get away with a single good quality battery. Double lining reduces current draw but extends winching time. Also lessens risk of breaking winch line etc. Since you are not do comp winching, winch for 1-2 minutes then rest winch and fast idle for 5-10 minutes. There are a vast array of batteries out there with a vast range of prices and specifications. One of the specifications which is often not looked at is depth of discharge. DoD is important as the more charge you can take out of battery and still start the engine is important. We use Odyssey batteries in all our Land Rovers. Twin batteries? Now we recommend having two combined starter leisure batteries. Now do you put winch onto starter battery or the second battery? There are arguments for both. With twin batteries you could link both batteries together whilst winching effectively doubling your battery size or alternatively save one of the batteries so you can always start your engine. Cable size? We use 35mm2 cable on our winches and have no problems with them Consider very carefully YOUR NEEDS first and foremost. Whatever you decide get good quality reliable gear. A winch which lets you down in the middle of nowhere is in some respects worst then no winch! Brendan |
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2nd Nov 2011 8:47pm |
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| Odin Member Since: 29 Apr 2011 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 237  
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Thanks for the detailed responses. I want a robust setup but equally I don't have the cash to go mad with unnecessary upgrades. I think I will try a single battery until I learn otherwise (if and when). I've worked with Rovers whilst serving HM and never got into a circumstance that was unrecoverable and that was with no winch so will be cautious, but now want the insurance as theres no REME on call!
Brendan, any preferred winch supplier? |
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2nd Nov 2011 11:22pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8578
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Ooops a loaded question there
Personally I would suggest you keep to ones with well known names for reliability. On a pay and play site if your winch does not work then someone will normally appear over the horizon to give you a quick tug. Probably unlikely in your work. If you want a Goldfish winch probably David Bowyer website HERE There is some good winching advice on his website. If you speak to David on phone be prepared for a large phone bill Very knowledgeable, helpful guy.
Fora Warn, Superwinch or Champion speak to Chris at the Electric Winch Shop website HERE There again there are the normal suspects as well. Once you decide on your winch, get a quote then give me a bell and see if I can help out. We don't stock winches but might be able to supply. However I am not very knowledgeable on differences between all the different models. I would be wary about el cheapo winches from ebay. Personally when I need a winch I do need it to work Brendan |
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3rd Nov 2011 12:24am |
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| BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253
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Not sure why you would need a 12000lb winch for self recovery when you can double line and halve the amp draw (for example). If you really get into trouble then you can use mechanical advantage anyway (assuming you have anchor points, a chain, pulleys etc).
No you do not need a split charge system but bear in mind that if you're stuck on a steep hill with a fully loaded vehicle you will need to/it would be sensible to double line to protect the battery. Brendan already mentioned it but a goodwinch goldfish would be fine for what you need. fast and easy to fit, low maintenance. |
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3rd Nov 2011 1:39am |
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| Odin Member Since: 29 Apr 2011 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 237
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Thanks big mike. The other vehicle I'm sometimes with is a disco3 hence weight / tension issue and given the ground I want the extra reach, hence single line. I will look at Dave's site. Cheers.
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3rd Nov 2011 8:53am |
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| BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253
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Or just get a cable/rope extension if distance is an issue. Winches have their most powerful pull on the first wrap anyway, after that you're losing 20% plus each wrap
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3rd Nov 2011 9:53am |
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| BigRuss Member Since: 15 May 2010 Location: Norfolk Posts: 2785
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David does winches with larger drum capacity. Russell
2011MY 110 XS USW Black |
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3rd Nov 2011 11:05am |
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| Odin Member Since: 29 Apr 2011 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 237
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Thanks for your advice guys. Did some digging around and have just bought a TDS12 from Dave.
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4th Nov 2011 4:42pm |
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