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OldDD



Member Since: 17 Jan 2016
Location: Ballaugh
Posts: 53

Isle Of Man 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Orkney Grey
Oil Dilution
As good over all as they are much has been said about the new Ingenium Diesel Engines and their susceptibility to Oil Dilution leading to catastrophic failure.
I have a couple of questions for the mechanics among us:
1. What is an acceptable dilution figure and at what point should you be concerned?
2. Will changing the oil every 6 months guarantee any potential dilution issues?
3. If the issue is indeed down to short journeys and incomplete DPF regens then would removing the DPF altogether provide a permanent solution to this problem?
I understand taking option 3 is not an easy one and could create warranty issue so I am more interested in the theory than the boogyman scenarios
Post #985224 12th Mar 2023 8:33am
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BrickBox



Member Since: 05 Oct 2021
Location: Wales
Posts: 606

Wales 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Zermatt Silver
Option 2 and making sure you take the vehicle on a longer drive every so often and some higher revs.

These new vehicles don’t rev high enough these days with the 7/8/9 speed gearboxes. Therefore don’t generate enough heat on short journeys. 2008 2.4 110 Utility XS.
Post #985226 12th Mar 2023 9:31am
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OldDD



Member Since: 17 Jan 2016
Location: Ballaugh
Posts: 53

Isle Of Man 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Orkney Grey
What about if you live in a rural area where there isn't a road / trip you do that is long enough for the regen to start never mind finish?
Post #985253 12th Mar 2023 1:11pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 1695

United Kingdom 
Once every few journeys run the vehicle in lower gears so the revs are up at lower speeds, that will help get the exhaust hot enough to do a passive regen.

Note:- This is the madness of the emissions legislation associated with DPF’s. It only works if a certain driving pattern is followed. Else people have to do unnecessary longer high speed journeys or drive in lower gears to get exhaust to temperature. Neither of which can be good for the environment.!
Post #985254 12th Mar 2023 1:16pm
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BrickBox



Member Since: 05 Oct 2021
Location: Wales
Posts: 606

Wales 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Zermatt Silver
OldDD wrote:
What about if you live in a rural area where there isn't a road / trip you do that is long enough for the regen to start never mind finish?


Then you shouldn’t be purchasing a modern diesel. IMO. 2008 2.4 110 Utility XS.
Post #985260 12th Mar 2023 2:12pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 1695

United Kingdom 
Change oil and filter every 6k miles and you should be ok unless you get a warning earlier, in which case change more frequently.

Deleting a DPF in the uk is against regulations if vehicle is used on the road. it’s the same in many other countries, I.e EU member states. The DPF also works in conjunction with EGR and the engine ECU. I’m not familiar with your engine but expect it would require an engine remap to do so. I.e you can’t just remove the DPF from the exhaust.
Post #985263 12th Mar 2023 2:25pm
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lightning



Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2159

United Kingdom 
Is this an issue on the 3.0 or only on the 2.0 diesel?

l have read the well documented issues on the 2.0 lngenium but l've been told that the 3.0 doesn't have the issue due to the DPF being located very close to the engine.
Post #985485 14th Mar 2023 8:16am
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TexasRover



Member Since: 24 Nov 2022
Location: Paris
Posts: 768

France 2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Chawton White
Ianh wrote:
Once every few journeys run the vehicle in lower gears so the revs are up at lower speeds, that will help get the exhaust hot enough to do a passive regen.

Note:- This is the madness of the emissions legislation associated with DPF’s. It only works if a certain driving pattern is followed. Else people have to do unnecessary longer high speed journeys or drive in lower gears to get exhaust to temperature. Neither of which can be good for the environment.!


I am not sure raising the RPM is going to do anything to the exhaust gas temperature unless you have associated load. The get proper heat you need load more than rpm. You need either a decent motorway run or very spirited driving with hard acceleration.
Post #985490 14th Mar 2023 8:52am
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11240

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
lightning wrote:
Is this an issue on the 3.0 or only on the 2.0 diesel?

l have read the well documented issues on the 2.0 lngenium but l've been told that the 3.0 doesn't have the issue due to the DPF being located very close to the engine.

The issue specifically relates to the 2.0 Ingenium in the DiscoSport and other vehicles on the same platform, as it's a consequence of the packaging in those applications. It's not relevant to the Defender. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia
Post #985496 14th Mar 2023 9:21am
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OldDD



Member Since: 17 Jan 2016
Location: Ballaugh
Posts: 53

Isle Of Man 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Orkney Grey
So do any of the experts know the answer to question 1??
I intend to do 2. anyway but would like to understand what are seen as acceptable parameters for dilution for the D200/250/300 straight 6 Ingenium in particular.
Not knowing is OK btw ☺️
Post #985508 14th Mar 2023 10:55am
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3748

 
LandRoverAnorak wrote:
lightning wrote:
Is this an issue on the 3.0 or only on the 2.0 diesel?

l have read the well documented issues on the 2.0 lngenium but l've been told that the 3.0 doesn't have the issue due to the DPF being located very close to the engine.

The issue specifically relates to the 2.0 Ingenium in the DiscoSport and other vehicles on the same platform, as it's a consequence of the packaging in those applications. It's not relevant to the Defender.


Thanks for adding that bit LRA, I’ve been trying to tell people that they aren’t comparing apples with apples as the L663 engine bay was a clean sheet design and they could put the DPF and it’s gubbins in the Optimal places unlike the DS, D5 and Evoque where it had to go where they could squeeze it in.
My last RRS was was a 2015 HSE D 3.0ltr and that never had any DPF issues in my hands but I know people who mostly used them for commuting in London and the SE who had lots of problems because they didn’t understand that you had to take them for a decent high speed blast in a low gear (ie not cruising at speed up in 8th gear but giving it some revs in 6th gear) to force a DPF regen every month at least - did they listen………. Not often then they complained that they had the DPF warning light lit up on the dash and needed to visit the service bay to get the dealers to do the regen.
In my D240 over 3 years I have never knowingly experienced a DPF regen, I drive mostly on fast A roads 16 miles each way to town and back and a monthly longish drive of about 100-150 miles plus off-roading - it would be nice if LR would put an indicator light on the info screen that came up when a regen were in progress so at least you know not to stop the engine during the process, but oil dilution doesn’t seem to be the issue with L663 that it has been with older Ingenium engines LR’s and Jaguars Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!
Post #985510 14th Mar 2023 11:04am
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J77



Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3223

Scotland 
There’s a distinct exhaust note when going through a regen, a deep throaty burble.

According to iGUIDE it should have a indicator once a regen is complete



Click image to enlarge
 23.5MY 90 D250 X-Dynamic SE, Pangea Green
Gone - 23MY 110 D250 XS Edition, Hakuba Silver
Gone - 21MY 90 D200 S, Tasman Blue, Fuji White roof.
Post #985515 14th Mar 2023 12:24pm
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whiterdesign



Member Since: 10 Jun 2021
Location: Preston
Posts: 244

United Kingdom 
Think we should have a poll to see if anyone has seen this symbol, it can be on red, amber or green. Wonder what briefly means cos I’ve never seen one 110 XS 250 MY 23 Gondwana Stone, Cold climate pack and towbar
Post #985550 14th Mar 2023 6:11pm
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Retroanaconda



Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2520

Scotland 
Never seen one in the two years or so I’ve had mine - 53k miles. I think it’s all passive regens which aren’t indicated, unless you do small journeys.
Post #985551 14th Mar 2023 6:21pm
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whiterdesign



Member Since: 10 Jun 2021
Location: Preston
Posts: 244

United Kingdom 
I do a lot of short journeys but do give it a motorway blast a least every couple of weeks. My last car a Volvo advised you in the manual to give it a longer higher speed journey at least every tankful of diesel. 110 XS 250 MY 23 Gondwana Stone, Cold climate pack and towbar
Post #985556 14th Mar 2023 6:43pm
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