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lightning



Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2217

United Kingdom 
After the torrent of complaints on this thread l am not sure the LR person will let us loose on their customer feedback questionnaire!
Post #979115 21st Jan 2023 1:40pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16856

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I think we're only just getting started!

They won't know who we are, so they won't know who shouldn't be sent a questionnaire! Let the games commence.

I seem to remember the last one was all about the "infotainment system" (yuk) and none of the questions was "do you actually want an infotainment system". I couldn't give the answers I wanted so I binned the daft survey.
Post #979152 21st Jan 2023 7:20pm
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Retroanaconda



Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2542

Scotland 
The Pivi Pro is an excellent system though Rolling Eyes
Post #979165 21st Jan 2023 9:55pm
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lightning



Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2217

United Kingdom 
lt certainly works well on mine, no complaints at all. Let's hope Land Rover get back into profit in the near future.
Post #979167 21st Jan 2023 10:10pm
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Moo



Member Since: 01 Oct 2021
Location: Bath
Posts: 1011

Ukraine 
If they do the right things like sorting out the dealer network, reliability, customer good will and thin the product range down, then they have a chance.
Post #979174 22nd Jan 2023 1:06am
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Muddybigdog



Member Since: 11 Apr 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 991

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Zambezi Silver
@moo spot on,

would also love to see a Jimny sized vehicle based on the older style defender, not costing anymore than £30k, if Suzuki can surely Land Rover could? Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200
Puma 90 XS - Sold
D3 - 2.7 S x2 (both Sold)
Freelander 2 HSE - Sold
Freelander 1 - Sold
Disco 2 - Sold
Post #979190 22nd Jan 2023 9:45am
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lightning



Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2217

United Kingdom 
Actually Suzuki did it for under £20,000

We've got a 2020 Jimny and it's very much like a refined and updated version of the old Defender. lt's got the same underpinnings but is quieter, has a great HVAC system, doesn't leak, has been totally reliable etc

lt's just a bit too small to be a serious Defender replacement. As above, if Land Rover built the same but 20% larger and under £30,000 they'd have a two year waiting list immediately. Farmers would buy back into the brand.

Jimnys are no longer available and sell for around £25,000 which is £6,000 over list.




Click image to enlarge
Post #979211 22nd Jan 2023 11:55am
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Muddybigdog



Member Since: 11 Apr 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 991

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Zambezi Silver
Great shout Lightning for being 20% larger, this caught my lazy eye!

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-car...derivative Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200
Puma 90 XS - Sold
D3 - 2.7 S x2 (both Sold)
Freelander 2 HSE - Sold
Freelander 1 - Sold
Disco 2 - Sold
Post #979219 22nd Jan 2023 12:30pm
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lightning



Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2217

United Kingdom 
Looks good.

They need to get the Grenadier out of their factory first though. Hopefully someone on here will take delivery and start a thread on their experience with it.

l had to cancel my Grenadier order because l needed delivery by March 2023 and there's still no news on when the first customers will actually receive their vehicle.

l ordered a Defender and Grenadier early in 2022. The Defender was due in April 2023 but arrived in November 2022.
The Grenadier was promised by the end of 2022 but in November when the Defender arrived there was still no delivery date.

Shame as the Grenadier potentially looks great, apart from that huge Wrangler type front bumper, but l expect alternatives will be available, as they are with the Jeep.

l also looked at the Wrangler LWB but it's not a Commercial Vehicle so l couldn't put it through my business.
Also the Jeep dealers get very poor reviews with owners unable to get warranty work carried out at all in some cases.
Post #979267 22nd Jan 2023 9:14pm
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XplusYplusZ



Member Since: 16 Aug 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 408

Headlights - Low beam, non-matrix versions are very poor. Especially at close distances to the vehicle.

Materials - The non-leather, heavy touchpoint materials are pretty poor. Considering how much development and the 'materiality attributes' studies, it feels like they never actually tried to live with the products they developed. Sticky rubber around central controls which loves to hold on to dust. Robustec, and the neoprene-like material on door cards and centre console pick up dirt, waterstains and white skin-scuffs far too easily - ie. within days of use, they look worn. I am hoping they can be professionally cleaned but, the main message is that they are far worse than commonly available luxtec or similar vinyl/faux leather products.

Camping Mode+1: I recently spent the night in my vehicle. I'm not sure if the target market for NDs are big car campers, but if JLR do want to push overlanding/car camping capabilities, there are a few things which could be improved:
1. Scheduled departure/heating appears to be missing. Please reinstate it.
2. Battery drain is reportedly very bad. I used portable lighting but it did worry me.
3. Interior Rear door unlock would be very appreciated.
4. Maybe a 'camping mode' which turns on/off a few options.
5. Air suspension levelling when parked. A rock will suffice but not always available.
6. Better cargo cover solution. I think a load bearing but stowable wire rack option would help make use of the slightly awkward but vertically lofty cargo space.
7. A leisure battery could be a nice optional extra.

Scheduled Departure Pre-conditioning - appears to have been removed. Replace it.

Mini Tail lights - look a bit clumsy.

Interior Loadspace lighting - is poor. The low level lights get blocked quickly and are then pointless.

Water seals - Lots of reports of different types of water ingress

Ship's log / OBD view With increasingly complex vehicles, it might be good to have an issue/error/conflict log which can help operators understand problems. Eg, You select seat heating when in ECO mode = not an issue, it's to observe the eco settings. The revs are very high = DPF conditioning. Adaptive CC disabled = Radar needs cleaning.

LiDar obstacles Real time scanning of widths/ heights/ obstacles with assessment if the car will pass or not. Whether it's carparks or fallen logs, width restrictors or stone gates, inclines, etc. It shouldn't be too hard measure and augment object measurements onscreen. Might even be cool to add into InControl so you can remotely scan an obstacle.

Tougher rear bumper/load touchpoint - Given the amount of compromises made to accommodate a side open door, it seems contradictory that the rear bumper extending beyond the load space is so susceptible to wear and damage. I shouldn't have to buy additional protective solutions for loading a defender.
Post #979708 25th Jan 2023 11:38am
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markb110



Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2520

England 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Epsom Green
All amazingly valid point Xplus.

Unfortunately looking at the recent employment drive at JLR to take on failed T.w.i.t.b.o.ok staff they will only want to know what shade of woke do you want, where would the bloke like to store his lipstick and how can your car interact with other vehicles to ensure it knows when to boil the kettle at home.

The drive to continually push time limited technology continues..
Post #979714 25th Jan 2023 12:25pm
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Moo



Member Since: 01 Oct 2021
Location: Bath
Posts: 1011

Ukraine 
I got a questionnaire yesterday asking about my experience with my new Defender.

I really enjoyed using the comments boxes. LR has been left in no uncertain terms of my views about my experience so far and what I think of the dealer! Twisted Evil

Let's see if they contact me. I'm not holding my breath!
Post #979717 25th Jan 2023 12:32pm
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Telemarkskier



Member Since: 20 Jul 2020
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 114

United Kingdom 
XplusYplusZ wrote:
Headlights - Low beam, non-matrix versions are very poor. Especially at close distances to the vehicle.

Materials - The non-leather, heavy touchpoint materials are pretty poor. Considering how much development and the 'materiality attributes' studies, it feels like they never actually tried to live with the products they developed. Sticky rubber around central controls which loves to hold on to dust. Robustec, and the neoprene-like material on door cards and centre console pick up dirt, waterstains and white skin-scuffs far too easily - ie. within days of use, they look worn. I am hoping they can be professionally cleaned but, the main message is that they are far worse than commonly available luxtec or similar vinyl/faux leather products.

Camping Mode+1: I recently spent the night in my vehicle. I'm not sure if the target market for NDs are big car campers, but if JLR do want to push overlanding/car camping capabilities, there are a few things which could be improved:
1. Scheduled departure/heating appears to be missing. Please reinstate it.
2. Battery drain is reportedly very bad. I used portable lighting but it did worry me.
3. Interior Rear door unlock would be very appreciated.
4. Maybe a 'camping mode' which turns on/off a few options.
5. Air suspension levelling when parked. A rock will suffice but not always available.
6. Better cargo cover solution. I think a load bearing but stowable wire rack option would help make use of the slightly awkward but vertically lofty cargo space.
7. A leisure battery could be a nice optional extra.

Scheduled Departure Pre-conditioning - appears to have been removed. Replace it.

Mini Tail lights - look a bit clumsy.

Interior Loadspace lighting - is poor. The low level lights get blocked quickly and are then pointless.

Water seals - Lots of reports of different types of water ingress

Ship's log / OBD view With increasingly complex vehicles, it might be good to have an issue/error/conflict log which can help operators understand problems. Eg, You select seat heating when in ECO mode = not an issue, it's to observe the eco settings. The revs are very high = DPF conditioning. Adaptive CC disabled = Radar needs cleaning.

LiDar obstacles Real time scanning of widths/ heights/ obstacles with assessment if the car will pass or not. Whether it's carparks or fallen logs, width restrictors or stone gates, inclines, etc. It shouldn't be too hard measure and augment object measurements onscreen. Might even be cool to add into InControl so you can remotely scan an obstacle.

Tougher rear bumper/load touchpoint - Given the amount of compromises made to accommodate a side open door, it seems contradictory that the rear bumper extending beyond the load space is so susceptible to wear and damage. I shouldn't have to buy additional protective solutions for loading a defender.


Agree with most of that, but you forgot to say improve the reverse lights. Current ones are no better than a couple of candles! 2020 Defender 110 SE 240D: Fuji White.
2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE
2007 Freelander2 HSE (man)
Post #979722 25th Jan 2023 12:56pm
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XplusYplusZ



Member Since: 16 Aug 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 408

Telemarkskier wrote:
..improve the reverse lights. Current ones are no better than a couple of candles!

Rolling with laughter

I didn't realise it had any..
Post #979726 25th Jan 2023 1:15pm
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lightning



Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2217

United Kingdom 
Sounds like you lot would all be better off in something else!

As used Defenders are still selling over list price (WBAC is offering £5,000 over list for mine) why not move the vehicle on and get a Grenadier or Jeep Wrangler.

l looked at the Jeep Wrangler, it seems well developed with few complaints from owners about not being fit for purpose.
As for the Grenadier it's very much like the old Defender which was totally fit for purpose.
Post #979830 26th Jan 2023 8:52am
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