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thepetrolhead



Member Since: 30 Jul 2013
Location: South West
Posts: 228

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Oslo Blue
VAT Compliant?
I was fortunate to order mine in September.

That said, struggling to get any information on VAT compliance.

Need to spec my commercial next month and was hoping to get confirmation that the five seater commercial had a load capacity of in excess of 1000kg to meet with VAT company van requirements....

I am hoping that the 2 seater will definitely be VAT qualifying.

Has anyone had confirmation?
Post #946549 22nd Mar 2022 6:35am
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camelman



Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 2852

United Kingdom 
Can Ineos not tell you? 
Post #946562 22nd Mar 2022 8:38am
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thepetrolhead



Member Since: 30 Jul 2013
Location: South West
Posts: 228

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Oslo Blue
Yes. I have sent them an email. No response as yet.
Post #946596 22nd Mar 2022 2:07pm
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CarMan



Member Since: 29 Nov 2010
Location: Cotswolds
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I am not a VAT expert but from my own research I am pretty confident that the 1,000kg payload refers to double cabs only. Everyone I spoke to (not accountants) told me that a five seater with no windows in the back (e.g. 110 USW) would be VAT qualifying and a commercial for BIK purposes, but HMRC's advice clearly states that a truck with windows and seats behind the driver's row is unlikely to meet the criteria. Just because JLR or Ineos tell you it's a commercial, will not necessarily satisfy HMRC (they say) as to it's main purpose of carrying burden not people. There is no question in my mind that a 2 seat hard top is a commercial in all respects. Just my take on it, hope it helps. Rob

1993 200tdi 90 hard-top
1998 300tdi 90 soft-top
2016 2.2 XS 90 hard-top
Post #946602 22nd Mar 2022 2:43pm
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lord-haggis



Member Since: 12 Feb 2020
Location: Edinburgh
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When it comes to a commercial version of a car, its a minefield of this and that, a lot of it rests on the payload space and the capacity of it carry payload after any additional accessories have also been added (HMRC will take into account the added weight of winches, roll cages etc).

Given the Grenadier is rumoured to be at least 2600kg minimum in Station Wagon form I would think commercials are going to be restricted to the pickups.

For things like the Disc commercial your meant to have any rear seat belt holes etc welded or plugged with sheer bolts, if they think you can put seats or belts in a lot of the commercials (non crew cab) then you're likely to get a hefty BIK and VAT bill. Belize Green TD5 110 Double Cab aka Le Farm Truck
Post #946608 22nd Mar 2022 3:08pm
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camelman



Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 2852

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CarMan wrote:
I am not a VAT expert but from my own research I am pretty confident that the 1,000kg payload refers to double cabs only. Everyone I spoke to (not accountants) told me that a five seater with no windows in the back (e.g. 110 USW) would be VAT qualifying and a commercial for BIK purposes, but HMRC's advice clearly states that a truck with windows and seats behind the driver's row is unlikely to meet the criteria. Just because JLR or Ineos tell you it's a commercial, will not necessarily satisfy HMRC (they say) as to it's main purpose of carrying burden not people. There is no question in my mind that a 2 seat hard top is a commercial in all respects. Just my take on it, hope it helps.


Landrover made a big deal when they launched the 110 Utility Station wagon to get around this very issue and the fact that it could still carry over 1000kg to meet the company van rules.

Interesting discussion on it here: https://businessvans.co.uk/van-tax/crew-va...-or-a-van/ 
Post #946612 22nd Mar 2022 3:41pm
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CarMan



Member Since: 29 Nov 2010
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 1668

United Kingdom 
True, but being of a naturally cautious disposition, I decided against a USW as I didn't want the risk of a big VAT and BIK bill some years down the road, based on what I read including this and other pages https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/e...l/eim23110
Post #946620 22nd Mar 2022 4:16pm
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thepetrolhead



Member Since: 30 Jul 2013
Location: South West
Posts: 228

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Oslo Blue
thepetrolhead wrote:
Yes. I have sent them an email. No response as yet.


And still they have not replied to my simple question.....
Post #946995 25th Mar 2022 2:07pm
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Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 394

France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
lord-haggis wrote:
Given the Grenadier is rumoured to be at least 2600kg minimum in Station Wagon form I would think commercials are going to be restricted to the pickups.


How could they respond based on rumored data ?
Post #947646 31st Mar 2022 6:22pm
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thepetrolhead



Member Since: 30 Jul 2013
Location: South West
Posts: 228

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Oslo Blue
Ineos Customer Service Replied...
They have replied. The commercial is N1. The load capacity has yet to be completed as no production vehicles are ready to be tested.
Post #949495 15th Apr 2022 8:04pm
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familymad



Member Since: 13 Dec 2011
Location: Bucks
Posts: 3348

2016 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Santorini Black
The 2 seat or both 2 and 5 seat? 1951 80" S1 2.0
1984 90 2.25
1994 110 300TDI
1995 110 300TDI
1995 90 300TDI
2005 90 TD5
Post #950539 25th Apr 2022 8:04pm
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thepetrolhead



Member Since: 30 Jul 2013
Location: South West
Posts: 228

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Oslo Blue
Both yet to be tested....
Both.

Submit my additional deposit on 28 Apr. Still no confirmation on load capacity.
Post #950541 25th Apr 2022 8:06pm
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familymad



Member Since: 13 Dec 2011
Location: Bucks
Posts: 3348

2016 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Santorini Black
Ok thanks. That’s what I wanted to know. 5 seat utility it is then… 1951 80" S1 2.0
1984 90 2.25
1994 110 300TDI
1995 110 300TDI
1995 90 300TDI
2005 90 TD5
Post #950543 25th Apr 2022 8:09pm
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lord-haggis



Member Since: 12 Feb 2020
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 765

United Kingdom 
Julie wrote:
lord-haggis wrote:
Given the Grenadier is rumoured to be at least 2600kg minimum in Station Wagon form I would think commercials are going to be restricted to the pickups.


How could they respond based on rumored data ?


The rumours are from their documents, thats a lot of risk to do a buy on for a company Belize Green TD5 110 Double Cab aka Le Farm Truck
Post #950545 25th Apr 2022 8:17pm
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Harry dog



Member Since: 27 Oct 2016
Location: Farnham Surrey
Posts: 32

England 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
I've got a 2012 110 USW and it clearly lists the vehicle on the V5 as a Light Commercial Vehicle! So, I don't see how there would any wriggle room for HMRC regards VAT. In fact just after I bought the vehicle I had a spot check inspection from HMRC and a very forensic VAT inspector saw the vehicle parked on the drive and didn't find anything wrong with the latest VAT return where the VAT for the vehicle had been reclaimed.

I think the issue with Defenders generally is that a lot of them were sold as VAT qualifying as agricultural vehicles, whether they were station wagons with windows and rear seats or hardtops with no windows and rear seats. That meant the VAT rules for what makes a vehicle a van/commercial vehicle were confused. When Land Rover introduced the USW that clearly added another vehicle along side the hardtop that a company that is VAT registered could claim back in full the VAT on the purchase price.

Harry
Post #950775 27th Apr 2022 6:59pm
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