 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Jacking up maximum height using Hi-Lift type jack? |
 
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What I really want I suppose is a nice two post lift that is mobile but these kind of toys cost big money. I have seen some really big car ramps at some of the Land Rover shows with Defenders on them demonstrating axle articulation like the one used for 'Twist Off' comps. But these all seem to be expensive custom builds.
| Bobble Member Since: 21 Aug 2011 Location: Hampshire Posts: 223  
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Not true. With the right axle stands it's possible to have them in position and raised to meet the underside of the axle casing before any jacking has even begun. Once the HiLift has been raised, the suspension extended and the axle/wheel lifted off the ground an inch to allow the axle stand to then be extended to meet the axle casing again, how far will the vehicle fall if the jack fails?.......About an inch, either on to its wheels or on to the stand, followed the suspension compressing. True it won't be pretty, but it's really not the big melodrama everyone makes it out to be.
Yes, but that's a function of using axle stands, not a reflection on the jack in question.
How d'you figure that then? If it goes sideways the axle will settle on the stand a few inches out either way but on the same axis. To miss the stand it'd have to roll fore or aft. I wouldn't use a HiLift unless there really was no alternative to the two trolley jacks and six axle stands currently gracing my garage and like many others mine's been used more for non-vehicle related jobs, but I really do smile with all this doom'n'gloom "HiLifts = Instant (and really gory) Death" talk. It's as though rejecting the HiLift has become the antithesis of the "All the gear, no idea" maxim.... |
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3rd Oct 2011 4:34pm |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664 
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Or the recommended way...
 Click image to enlarge Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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3rd Oct 2011 4:43pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2525  
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Hi Mermoto
Just found this on an American site - i know the wife and she will say No! http://www.landsport.com/INSPECT_PAGE_PICS/INSPECT22.htm As an alternative for your requirements and is cheaper than a pit (though they are handy as i used a mates to waxoyl mine this year) how about a couple of railway sleepers and drive the 90 on top. More ground clearance, all four wheels level, good solid base. If i am working on mine in the garage sometimes i will drive one wheel up onto cut off piece of sleeper and give myself a little extra room underneath - as i did today changing the track rod ends. Mark |
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3rd Oct 2011 5:12pm |
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| mermoto Member Since: 21 Sep 2011 Location: Essex Posts: 326 |
Now that is exactly what I want! Mermoto |
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3rd Oct 2011 5:41pm |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5425 
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An axle is about 11 to 12" off the ground, so you would need a very small axle stand, and if it 11" tall would only allow you to raise the vehicle by 8 or 9", so bigger stands would be required i believe. I was refering to the method mentioned where every time you raised the jack you would raise the stand. The more time you spend under a jack supported vehicle the greater chance of an injury. I sugest you have not seen/had a vehicle fall off a High Lift, the vehicle goes where it wants, not where you wish. And it certainly won't "settle on the stand". Land Rovers are heavy Andy |
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3rd Oct 2011 8:05pm |
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| Bobble Member Since: 21 Aug 2011 Location: Hampshire Posts: 223
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I've got three-tonne stands that at their lowest setting just fit under the axle, and at their highest setting give about 6" under the wheel. Not sure how high "high" is but much more than that and I use a ramp or pillar lift.
And no, never had a wagon fall off a Hi Lift - must be doing it right.  |
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7th Oct 2011 10:34am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16920 
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Back to the OP's question; I personally feel that this would become extremely unstable before the axle had even left the ground. If the wheels at the opposite end were chocked very securely in both directions (and, if it is the back end being raised, the steering was locked as well) than it might be possible to get the axle off the ground and live, but I would have to be desperate to try it. Better than dying in the wilderness, if that is the alternative. If I had to get one end on axle stands and only had a hilift for the job, my preference would be to strap one side of the axle to the chassis, lift that corner on to one axle stand, unstrap the axle, then repeat very carefully for the other corner. This would at least ensure that three corners were securely supported at all times. Alternatively drive up PSP/waffle ramps, insert axle stands and then deflate the tyres. I would never if I could help it get in the situation where a vehicle might drop onto an axle stand - they are seldom stable (or strong) enough for this. I do find it quite amusing to see the number of "hilift jacks are deadly"-type threads and posts on here. In my view, a hilift is a safe and incredibly versatile tool, provided that the person using it understands what he/she is doing and has enough sense and mechanical aptitude to use it in a safe way. However the same thing could be said about most tools, such as winches, chainsaws (possibly the most dangerous unregulated tool you can buy), and even the vehicle itself. The danger comes from the idiot using it, not the tool. I wonder how many people have actually been killed or injured using hilift jacks over the years; not that many, I will wager. (I wonder what is actually the most dangerous tool overall, in terms of the percentage of users killed or injured? Probably something daft like a stepladder). I have worked on vehicles supported solely by a hilift (shock horror!) but before doing so have made sure that the handle is secured and that there is no possibility of the vehicle moving in any direction, especially crosswise to the jack, and that there is no possibility of the jack slipping out from under the vehicle. Provided that this is done properly, a hilift is less likely to fail under load than a hydraulic jack. Not that anyone here would ever work on a vehicle supported solely by a trolley jack, of course. |
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7th Oct 2011 11:40am |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436  
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Tuning in on this ever returning debate
To me the unsafe element is that people are going up too high on the high lift rack when trying to lift something. The lower to the baseplate you are, the more stability you have by holding the jack at the top of the rack. The long travel of a high-lift is a benefit when used for winching or clamping but in case of lifting it needs to be approached with care. So how to do it and safely to my opinion? Use blocks and lift the vehicle block-height per block height, every step supporting the vehicle on the new blocks and raising the base (also wooden blocks) under the high lift. That way your high-lift is never going up more that 10inch on the rack and you can keep the jack (and the car) much more stable holding the rack at the top part. (you can also higher the axle stands step by step) If you extend more than say 10-12 inches things become very unstable very fast and you wont be able to hold the jack once weight shifts and the car slides somewhere. Never use bricks as base as these crack without warning, wood still has my preference. The reason for the jacking point being a pivot point (round tube) and not a fixture to hold the high lift fix and vertical to the car is that in case the weight shifts the rack is taking all the forces and would easily bend. (especially when the jack is high up the rack) With this pivot point the car seeks stability in case you want to lift it when it is not level, takes the strain out of the jack and warns you for potential stability dangers. Only then we realized it is a way to push the car out of ruts when stuck, it was not a design feature of the jack more like a good use of a drawback. Just my 2cents |
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7th Oct 2011 1:19pm |
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| Bobble Member Since: 21 Aug 2011 Location: Hampshire Posts: 223
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7th Oct 2011 4:46pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8578
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That is the big problem! Talk to John who used to be a mod on the old LRA forum. He walked up to a vehicle lifted up on a high lift jack. Lets cut long story short. Airlifted to hospital, 8 hours in operating theatre to save his life, but lost one eye and has lots of metal in cheek/head etc then should be there. Then there is the high lift jack typical user! Click image to enlarge Note handle, note lack of axle stand. REFUSED use of axle stand whilst head under wheel arch braying axle with lump hammer In my opinion the high lift jack is over rated bit of kit. YES I have one, but rarely carry it. Want to do a wheel change use either a bottle jack or a trolley jack. When travelling I carry a folding axle stand. If I need to winch will use the electric winch. Getting out of ruts? Will use a shovel which is the most under rated bit of kit going> Brendan Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  |
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7th Oct 2011 7:42pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16920
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To me that is a photo of evolution in action - an accident waiting to happen. An everyday sight now the world is full of dangerously stupid people. Agree totally about the shovel, definitely the one tool I would take before all others and would never be without. In nearly 35 years of off-road driving it has got me out of trouble on numerous occasions. I have even had to use it as s base for the hilift, but perhaps I shouldn't mention that here! Last time I used the hilift was to free someone trapped under an overturned minidigger (evolution was frustrated on that occasion since we got him out and to hospital very quickly). Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated |
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7th Oct 2011 11:00pm |
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| Bobble Member Since: 21 Aug 2011 Location: Hampshire Posts: 223
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So who then, was the bigger idiot?  |
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8th Oct 2011 12:51am |
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