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cartoonhead



Member Since: 02 Mar 2018
Location: Bucks
Posts: 135

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Corris Grey
Stage One V8 4.6 GEMS Build
Okay, so it's not quite a Defender, but it's pretty close and sitting on defender axles and has a flat front. Here's my Stage One V8 109:


Click image to enlarge

She's not very original, got the wrong axles with a galvanised chassis and she's had more holes drilled in her than a sieve. She's perfect. Except the engine, that's tired and gutless. So anyway, I stumbled across a 4.6 for sale out of a P38, recently rebuilt by RPI and top hat linered. Comes complete with the GEMS setup too. No more carbs! An ECU which self-tunes, is relatively simple and pretty reliable (in my experience*). You son of a bitch, I'm in. Anyway how hard can it be, it's basically the same engine, right?

No. It's hard. Don't do it! I haven't even done it yet and I'm finding it hard! It's also expensive. This is where I'm at so far.

Parts Sourced
  • 4.6 Rover V8 Engine
  • GEMS ECU, unlocked & programmed for a manual gearbox (by Tornado Systems)
  • Full GEMS wiring loom, the airbox, MAF and lambda sensors
  • P38 GEMS manual flywheel (which cost £650!!!, by the way)
  • Crank sensor for manual flywheel, I got this one, if that doesn't work I'll let you know and grind down my auto one)
  • A P38 fuel pump
  • Fuel pump adjustable regulator (which I'm still not sure I'll need)
  • 10 spline clutch kit (from LOF clutches)
  • 3.9 manifolds + studs + gaskets (as I'm told the P38 ones won't fit)
  • The battery tray from a P38 (which also houses the ECU) that I'm going to try and cut up and reuse for my ECU.

Parts Still Needed
  • A new Stage One V8 radiator to handle the heat (15 week waiting list from Alisport Big Cry)
  • Coolant pipes & hoses (I think I'll need to get these fabricated once the engine is in)

Outstanding Issues
  • Where to locate the ECU? I'm going to see what I can make out of the P38 tray and whether it looks like it will fit in the engine bay. I don’t particularly want to have the loom extended.
  • Need to find somewhere localish who can make up the coolant pipes for me.
  • Is an oil cooler definetely unnecessary? I know LR themselves started shipping 4.6 V8s without oil coolers, but sometimes they do stupid things. How do I blank the ports properly if I go without?


Here's my plan for actually doing the thing.


Prep I can do at home
  • Clean the engine, make shiny
  • Fit the manual flywheel & sensor
  • Fit the 3.9 manifolds
  • Block oil ports (if I don't use an oil cooler)

Things I'll do with my friend Mark
  • Remove old engine, radiator and anything no longer needed
  • Clean the bulkhead and engine bay, treat any rust
  • Fit the new clutch
  • Mate the engine
  • Fit new fuel pump and regulator
  • Wire up engine & ECU
  • Mate to the existing exhaust if possible, even if it’s a bodge. Just so it can be driven on/off trailer without waking up the town

Finishing bits I can do
  • Get custom exhaust made and fitted, lambda sensors will need to be welded in. Been recommended to use Simpson Exhaust in Slough.
  • Mock up the pipework needed using wood or plastic, or something and find a fabricator to make them up
  • Fit new oil filter
  • Fill with oil & coolant
  • All the things I didn't think of yet

Shoutout to HufflePuff for the DM support and being my canary down the mine Thumbs Up

 @tab.travels on instagram

Defender 130 2.2 TDCI
Defender 90 TD5
80" CCV Trialer 4.6 V8 (14CUX)
Stage One V8 109 - 3.5 V8
Stage One V8 109 - 4.6 V8 (GEMS) - in progress
Range Rover L322 4.4 TDV8
Freelander 1 2.0 TD4
Post #955009 9th Jun 2022 9:51am
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11240

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
What a fantastic project. I do love a Stage 1 Cool Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia
Post #955010 9th Jun 2022 9:58am
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shanecl



Member Since: 20 Mar 2013
Location: Louth
Posts: 461

Ireland 1989 Defender 90 V8 Petrol CSW Auto Firenze Red
Best of luck with the project. Thumbs Up will you keep it the same colour. I think they are a nice combo

I'm currently wiring up a GEMS in my 90

Shane
Post #955014 9th Jun 2022 10:10am
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Linds Hanson



Member Since: 16 Jan 2021
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 452

United Kingdom 
Great project but would probably go with a V8 R380 and probably a Borg Warner transfer with lowered high range gearing, you may have to think about reducing front spring wrap also with the extra power
Post #955027 9th Jun 2022 11:12am
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cartoonhead



Member Since: 02 Mar 2018
Location: Bucks
Posts: 135

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Corris Grey
LandRoverAnorak wrote:
What a fantastic project. I do love a Stage 1 Cool

Me too! Fingers crossed it all works out.


shanecl wrote:
Best of luck with the project. Thumbs Up will you keep it the same colour. I think they are a nice combo

I'm currently wiring up a GEMS in my 90

Shane

Thanks! I'm not touching the paint, it's got a great patina. I didn't like the brown but it's grown on me over the years and now I think it's so ugly it's cool. Where's your build thread?! I need inspiration Very Happy


Linds Hanson wrote:
Great project but would probably go with a V8 R380 and probably a Borg Warner transfer with lowered high range gearing, you may have to think about reducing front spring wrap also with the extra power

To be honest, I really can't stand the r380 gearbox. If things don't work out I'll go auto, but for me the LT95 is perfect; it's strong and just feels like a proper Land Rover gearbox, nice and agricultural. I've also got a tall 4th out of a range rover and an overdrive.
Can you elaborate on "spring wrap"? I'm not sure what that is?

Edit: TIL what axle wrap is - thanks for the pointer! Looks like it shouldn't be too hard to fabricate something up. @tab.travels on instagram

Defender 130 2.2 TDCI
Defender 90 TD5
80" CCV Trialer 4.6 V8 (14CUX)
Stage One V8 109 - 3.5 V8
Stage One V8 109 - 4.6 V8 (GEMS) - in progress
Range Rover L322 4.4 TDV8
Freelander 1 2.0 TD4
Post #955033 9th Jun 2022 12:06pm
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Linds Hanson



Member Since: 16 Jan 2021
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 452

United Kingdom 
Yes each to there own I guess I just had too many years fixing LT95s in RRC and 101s and listening to people spout on how strong LT85s and 95s are that the R380 in its final form with a few mods and some Swepco oil makes a strong reasonably refined transmission
Post #955039 9th Jun 2022 1:25pm
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Pickles



Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3755

Australia 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green
Sounds really good, looking for further updates & pics.
Pickles.
Post #955088 9th Jun 2022 11:41pm
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GREENI



Member Since: 22 Aug 2010
Location: staffs
Posts: 10367

United Kingdom 
Very nice!
Watching with interest.
Post #955092 10th Jun 2022 8:04am
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cartoonhead



Member Since: 02 Mar 2018
Location: Bucks
Posts: 135

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Corris Grey
GREENI wrote:

Very nice!
Watching with interest.

That's handy, because I'll probably have a few questions for you Laughing


Pretty boring update from me; I was going to buy a junction box for the ECU to live in but then realised I could just buy a used P38 battery and ECU housing for the same money. This is how the housing looks:


Click image to enlarge


I just cut the battery part off, which left me with the ECU housing that all seals up nicely. There are two seals on the loom itself and another around the lid. It doesn't fit right now, but with the new engine the alternator will be further over and there should be plenty of space for it to live here:


Click image to enlarge


And that's almost exactly where it would live in a P38:


Click image to enlarge
 @tab.travels on instagram

Defender 130 2.2 TDCI
Defender 90 TD5
80" CCV Trialer 4.6 V8 (14CUX)
Stage One V8 109 - 3.5 V8
Stage One V8 109 - 4.6 V8 (GEMS) - in progress
Range Rover L322 4.4 TDV8
Freelander 1 2.0 TD4
Post #955144 10th Jun 2022 6:18pm
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Organised Chaos



Member Since: 20 Dec 2008
Location: Chesterfield
Posts: 51

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Cairns Blue
Have you tried Allyfab for the radiator, they made me one for my series2a v8 in less than a week, that was a couple of years ago.
http://www.allyfab.co.uk/
Post #955153 10th Jun 2022 8:59pm
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cartoonhead



Member Since: 02 Mar 2018
Location: Bucks
Posts: 135

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Corris Grey
Organised Chaos wrote:
Have you tried Allyfab for the radiator, they made me one for my series2a v8 in less than a week, that was a couple of years ago.
http://www.allyfab.co.uk/.


Funny you should say that; Allisport actually ended up sending me the radiator last week! Turns out they had everything needed for a stage one v8 rad. Here it is, nice and shiny, with fans:

Click image to enlarge


I also decided to replace my knackered servo with a very expensive (but also shiny) uprated 8" one from Haystee. She's already on defender axles with disk brakes all around and stops very well now. I did have to nip out a little bit of the wing which was a shame:

Click image to enlarge


I didn't take a pic, but I cleaned up, painted and fitted my 3.9 manifolds to the engine and bolted the flywheel on. She's now over at my mates with the new engine in the back. He's going to pull out the old block and drop the new one in, then it's coming back to me to plumb in all the ancillaries.

Hopefully, this is the last pic of her with a 3.5 V8 in:

Click image to enlarge
 @tab.travels on instagram

Defender 130 2.2 TDCI
Defender 90 TD5
80" CCV Trialer 4.6 V8 (14CUX)
Stage One V8 109 - 3.5 V8
Stage One V8 109 - 4.6 V8 (GEMS) - in progress
Range Rover L322 4.4 TDV8
Freelander 1 2.0 TD4
Post #956645 27th Jun 2022 3:16pm
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Stacey007



Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3702

United Kingdom 
Hello


That's a great project, I have done around 150 miles in the last few days in my Series 3... 2 1/4 petrol and any slight incline involves much gear changing Smile

As a side what wheels are they and do they fit standard bolts etc?


Thumbs Up
Post #956647 27th Jun 2022 3:31pm
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cartoonhead



Member Since: 02 Mar 2018
Location: Bucks
Posts: 135

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Corris Grey
Stacey007 wrote:
That's a great project, I have done around 150 miles in the last few days in my Series 3... 2 1/4 petrol and any slight incline involves much gear changing Smile

As a side what wheels are they and do they fit standard bolts etc?


Nice! I'm hoping I won't need to change gear much once the 4.6 V8 goes in Laughing They are called wolf wheels, they will fit your series 3 just fine with a few small caveats:
    * You won't get the wheel nuts on all the way because they are thicker than standard Land Rover rims. This hasn't been an issue for me and I wouldn't worry about it.
    * They are expensive these days, though you can get cheaper non Land Rover copies I don't know if they are any good.
    * They are heavier than standard wheels!
 @tab.travels on instagram

Defender 130 2.2 TDCI
Defender 90 TD5
80" CCV Trialer 4.6 V8 (14CUX)
Stage One V8 109 - 3.5 V8
Stage One V8 109 - 4.6 V8 (GEMS) - in progress
Range Rover L322 4.4 TDV8
Freelander 1 2.0 TD4
Post #956649 27th Jun 2022 3:47pm
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MercianRover



Member Since: 07 Apr 2022
Location: Culworth
Posts: 124

United Kingdom 1998 Defender 110 300 Tdi CSW Java Black
Cooling performance will be better if those fans had a shroud.
Also try and wire them so you have a dual temperature thermal switch (e.g. X-Eng) controlling the relays so you have off, half speed (fans in series) and full speed (fans in parallel).

I've found on my 100" that this manages temperatures well and keeps noise down too. The fans will cut in in slower traffic but rarely needs full speed (usually after a good climb off-tarmac), also keeps current draw reasonable.

Try and make room for vents to let the hot air out from the engine bay - this is as important as getting the cool air in.


Click image to enlarge
Post #956652 27th Jun 2022 4:28pm
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cartoonhead



Member Since: 02 Mar 2018
Location: Bucks
Posts: 135

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Corris Grey
Thanks for the tips MercianRover - I wasn't familiar with the x-eng fan switch, I'll definitely do that. Out of interest what temp thermostat are you running on your 100"? @tab.travels on instagram

Defender 130 2.2 TDCI
Defender 90 TD5
80" CCV Trialer 4.6 V8 (14CUX)
Stage One V8 109 - 3.5 V8
Stage One V8 109 - 4.6 V8 (GEMS) - in progress
Range Rover L322 4.4 TDV8
Freelander 1 2.0 TD4
Post #956667 27th Jun 2022 7:20pm
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