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BaronDefenders



Member Since: 28 Jun 2019
Location: London/Cotswolds
Posts: 803

United Kingdom 2004 Defender 90 Td5 SW Santorini Black
Odd Brake Light Issue
Morning All,

I was having a play with fitting LED brake bulbs to my ‘83 110 over the weekend, and found they produced a rather odd result. Hopefully someone will be able to offer a solution to my problem!

When depressing the brake pedal the brake lights do NOT illuminate. However, if the sidelights are ON the brake lights function and illuminate absolutely as they should when the pedal is depressed.

So the brake switch clearly works, and there is power reaching the bulb holders.

What should I be looking at? Polarity of the bulbs?

Before it comes up, in the nicest way possible, please don’t start telling me which section of the RTA or other piece of legislation this is contrary to. I am aware.

Cheers! Charlie

1949 Series 1 80 (SOLD)
2002 Td5 90 (SOLD)
2008 Freelander 2 (SOLD)

1958 Series 2 88 Pastel Green (2019 LR Legends Best Restored)
1983 V8 110 Limestone (Previously owned by Tom Sheppard MBE)
2004 Td5 90 Santorini Black (Td5INSIDE Powered & Rebuilt by CSK)
2012 Puma 110 Zermatt Silver (Overlanding Build)

Instagram: @BaronDefenders
Post #953277 23rd May 2022 8:16am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16808

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
My immediate first suspicion is that the polarity-conscious LEDs are the wrong polarity. Pressing the brake pedal will cause no light to be emitted since the polarity is wrong, but with the sidelights on they are being back-fed through the common earth and illuminating. It is hard to see another explanation.

Try swapping the wires to each of the brake lights over (I imagine that on your V8 they are individual wires with bullet connectors?) to see what happens then.

Since incandescent bulbs are not polarity-conscious the vehicle will have been like this since it left the factory (I'm not suggesting that you have fitted the bulbs incorrectly - that would be difficult to do)!
Post #953281 23rd May 2022 8:45am
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BaronDefenders



Member Since: 28 Jun 2019
Location: London/Cotswolds
Posts: 803

United Kingdom 2004 Defender 90 Td5 SW Santorini Black
Blackwolf, as always, a fountain of knowledge!

I think the polarity being wrong is the most likely solution. Thanks for explaining the earthing whilst the side lights are on, I couldn’t quite work that out.

I’m next with the V8 on Friday, so I’ll rotate the bulbs in the holders and try again.

Yes they’re on bullet connectors. If simply rotating the bulbs doesn’t work, I’ll try swapping the wires round. Charlie

1949 Series 1 80 (SOLD)
2002 Td5 90 (SOLD)
2008 Freelander 2 (SOLD)

1958 Series 2 88 Pastel Green (2019 LR Legends Best Restored)
1983 V8 110 Limestone (Previously owned by Tom Sheppard MBE)
2004 Td5 90 Santorini Black (Td5INSIDE Powered & Rebuilt by CSK)
2012 Puma 110 Zermatt Silver (Overlanding Build)

Instagram: @BaronDefenders
Post #953285 23rd May 2022 8:59am
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11240

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
You won't be able to rotate the bulbs as the pins are offset on stop/tail lights, i.e. they only fit one way. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia
Post #953287 23rd May 2022 9:09am
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BaronDefenders



Member Since: 28 Jun 2019
Location: London/Cotswolds
Posts: 803

United Kingdom 2004 Defender 90 Td5 SW Santorini Black
Sounds like I’m swapping the wires around then! Charlie

1949 Series 1 80 (SOLD)
2002 Td5 90 (SOLD)
2008 Freelander 2 (SOLD)

1958 Series 2 88 Pastel Green (2019 LR Legends Best Restored)
1983 V8 110 Limestone (Previously owned by Tom Sheppard MBE)
2004 Td5 90 Santorini Black (Td5INSIDE Powered & Rebuilt by CSK)
2012 Puma 110 Zermatt Silver (Overlanding Build)

Instagram: @BaronDefenders
Post #953290 23rd May 2022 9:17am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16808

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Thinking about this some more and factoring in the fact that these are presumably combined brake and tail LED bulbs (a detail which I had overlooked before) it would probably be worth checking the three wires connected to the light unit with a multimeter to make a definite ID on which is which and if they are working correctly.

It might also be worth testing one of the bulbs in another vehicle if you can. Are they bulbs from a quality source or are they Chinesium specials?

I use LED brake/tail bulbs on my 110 (these from Classic Car LEDs) and they work perfectly.
Post #953293 23rd May 2022 9:22am
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BaronDefenders



Member Since: 28 Jun 2019
Location: London/Cotswolds
Posts: 803

United Kingdom 2004 Defender 90 Td5 SW Santorini Black
Unfortunately I can’t test them in another vehicle. The 90 and other 110 now have LED units. I’ve never had the lights apart on the Series 2, so no idea what’s in there Whistle

They’re from Classic Car LEDs, so not Chinese wonders. Charlie

1949 Series 1 80 (SOLD)
2002 Td5 90 (SOLD)
2008 Freelander 2 (SOLD)

1958 Series 2 88 Pastel Green (2019 LR Legends Best Restored)
1983 V8 110 Limestone (Previously owned by Tom Sheppard MBE)
2004 Td5 90 Santorini Black (Td5INSIDE Powered & Rebuilt by CSK)
2012 Puma 110 Zermatt Silver (Overlanding Build)

Instagram: @BaronDefenders
Post #953294 23rd May 2022 9:35am
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BaronDefenders



Member Since: 28 Jun 2019
Location: London/Cotswolds
Posts: 803

United Kingdom 2004 Defender 90 Td5 SW Santorini Black
The plot thickens . . .

I’m going to have a guess and say the brake light switch might need replacing.

I managed to get the brake lights to flash on without the sidelights on, but now I can’t.

With the sidelights on, the brake lights work. However, they aren’t always at full brightness and sometimes are slightly delayed.

Any further ideas, chaps? Charlie

1949 Series 1 80 (SOLD)
2002 Td5 90 (SOLD)
2008 Freelander 2 (SOLD)

1958 Series 2 88 Pastel Green (2019 LR Legends Best Restored)
1983 V8 110 Limestone (Previously owned by Tom Sheppard MBE)
2004 Td5 90 Santorini Black (Td5INSIDE Powered & Rebuilt by CSK)
2012 Puma 110 Zermatt Silver (Overlanding Build)

Instagram: @BaronDefenders
Post #953823 27th May 2022 2:38pm
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Penfold_6290



Member Since: 22 Sep 2021
Location: Dorset
Posts: 271

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Epsom Green
Do the lights work as they should with normal filament bulbs fitted? What happens if you try to make the LED bulb illuminate out of the holder, i.e. access the vehicle battery, earth the 'barrel' part of the bulb base with a wire to the -ve terminal and take a 12v wire to each of the contacts on the bottom side?

You said before there are volts at the bulb holders, is there a good earth as well? Do the bulb holders grip the LED bulb snuggly? This is your earth path, if they're loose or there's corrosion you won't get a good earth.
Post #953832 27th May 2022 3:42pm
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BaronDefenders



Member Since: 28 Jun 2019
Location: London/Cotswolds
Posts: 803

United Kingdom 2004 Defender 90 Td5 SW Santorini Black
I think I might have sorted the issue.

At the same time as fitting LED brake bulbs, I fitted LED indicator bulbs. I’ve just replaced the dash warning bulb for the indicators with the Bolt on Bits earthed diode fix.

The brake lights now seem to work fine . . . I presume there was some sort of earthing madness going on.

I’ve found a thread elsewhere online where the halogen indicator warning bulb mixed with LED indicators has caused various issues.

I’ll check it out properly tomorrow, but it’s Friday and I need a drink Mr. Green Charlie

1949 Series 1 80 (SOLD)
2002 Td5 90 (SOLD)
2008 Freelander 2 (SOLD)

1958 Series 2 88 Pastel Green (2019 LR Legends Best Restored)
1983 V8 110 Limestone (Previously owned by Tom Sheppard MBE)
2004 Td5 90 Santorini Black (Td5INSIDE Powered & Rebuilt by CSK)
2012 Puma 110 Zermatt Silver (Overlanding Build)

Instagram: @BaronDefenders
Post #953842 27th May 2022 5:17pm
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BaronDefenders



Member Since: 28 Jun 2019
Location: London/Cotswolds
Posts: 803

United Kingdom 2004 Defender 90 Td5 SW Santorini Black
I spoke too soon. The problem persists . . . Charlie

1949 Series 1 80 (SOLD)
2002 Td5 90 (SOLD)
2008 Freelander 2 (SOLD)

1958 Series 2 88 Pastel Green (2019 LR Legends Best Restored)
1983 V8 110 Limestone (Previously owned by Tom Sheppard MBE)
2004 Td5 90 Santorini Black (Td5INSIDE Powered & Rebuilt by CSK)
2012 Puma 110 Zermatt Silver (Overlanding Build)

Instagram: @BaronDefenders
Post #953931 28th May 2022 7:41pm
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Mo Murphy



Member Since: 01 Jun 2008
Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts
Posts: 2062

United Kingdom 1984 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Pennine Grey
As Penfold has asked, do the lights work normally if you put the incandescent bulbs back in ?
Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen.
Post #953954 29th May 2022 7:43am
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BaronDefenders



Member Since: 28 Jun 2019
Location: London/Cotswolds
Posts: 803

United Kingdom 2004 Defender 90 Td5 SW Santorini Black
Had another replay around.

I think it’s the bulb holders getting crusty. They look alright but after taking the bulbs in and out a few times, they work.

The bulbs are held firmly.

I’ve given them a hit or ACF50 and shall see how they fare.

Might just be a case of replacing the holders. Thumbs Up Charlie

1949 Series 1 80 (SOLD)
2002 Td5 90 (SOLD)
2008 Freelander 2 (SOLD)

1958 Series 2 88 Pastel Green (2019 LR Legends Best Restored)
1983 V8 110 Limestone (Previously owned by Tom Sheppard MBE)
2004 Td5 90 Santorini Black (Td5INSIDE Powered & Rebuilt by CSK)
2012 Puma 110 Zermatt Silver (Overlanding Build)

Instagram: @BaronDefenders
Post #953957 29th May 2022 9:55am
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BaronDefenders



Member Since: 28 Jun 2019
Location: London/Cotswolds
Posts: 803

United Kingdom 2004 Defender 90 Td5 SW Santorini Black
Mo Murphy wrote:
As Penfold has asked, do the lights work normally if you put the incandescent bulbs back in ?
Mo


I’ll give that a try over the bank holiday and report back. Charlie

1949 Series 1 80 (SOLD)
2002 Td5 90 (SOLD)
2008 Freelander 2 (SOLD)

1958 Series 2 88 Pastel Green (2019 LR Legends Best Restored)
1983 V8 110 Limestone (Previously owned by Tom Sheppard MBE)
2004 Td5 90 Santorini Black (Td5INSIDE Powered & Rebuilt by CSK)
2012 Puma 110 Zermatt Silver (Overlanding Build)

Instagram: @BaronDefenders
Post #953963 29th May 2022 11:34am
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BaronDefenders



Member Since: 28 Jun 2019
Location: London/Cotswolds
Posts: 803

United Kingdom 2004 Defender 90 Td5 SW Santorini Black
I had one final play before putting the 110 away for the next couple of days.

The brake lights work when the side lights are on. No problem.

Turn the side lights off and the brake lights sort of still work.

Don’t turn the side lights on and the brake lights won’t work.

Madness . . . Rolling Eyes

I’ve ordered a pair of incandescent bulbs to try on Thursday. Charlie

1949 Series 1 80 (SOLD)
2002 Td5 90 (SOLD)
2008 Freelander 2 (SOLD)

1958 Series 2 88 Pastel Green (2019 LR Legends Best Restored)
1983 V8 110 Limestone (Previously owned by Tom Sheppard MBE)
2004 Td5 90 Santorini Black (Td5INSIDE Powered & Rebuilt by CSK)
2012 Puma 110 Zermatt Silver (Overlanding Build)

Instagram: @BaronDefenders
Post #953985 29th May 2022 3:02pm
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