 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Pondering an electric conversion. Advice welcome |
 
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| Race.it Member Since: 27 Aug 2019 Location: Algeciras Posts: 741   
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Just seen this on the tube Searching for my first Defender...and started just as Covid hit, so talk about timing. 5 months after starting the search I found it, and here is the details |
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21st May 2022 6:56am |
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| PCM Member Since: 25 Jan 2019 Location: North East Posts: 862 
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I spoke to them a few months back ans their conversion is nearly trebble figures and there is a wait list of nearly 2 years. Watched it last night. Seems ideal though if i can get my hands on a box. as they have already answered the questions i'm asking.
Plus they won't sell me a kit. I've asked if they sell to any garages in the UK though. It's also 4wd but you're replacing the drive train completely. The Defender is then just a shell. The old school part of me likes the idea of an engine conversion to electric rather than a completely new drive. Probably nonsensical but i'm quite fond of my clunky transfer box. 
Thoughts? Complete change out of drive train or just change the motor? I'm on the fence? |
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21st May 2022 7:15am |
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| PCM Member Since: 25 Jan 2019 Location: North East Posts: 862
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Drawings.....
I'm looking at somewhere that can make an interface plate either from an electric motor to the gearbox, transfer box (With reducer) or even based on the above Tesla transformation to the prop shafts. Props are easier as they can be removed and sent to the machine shop. But the other bits are a touch harder to send. Does anyone know of a company that makes adapter plates and may have the required info? Mechanically this is all that's needed. It's the other little issues that need addressing but are progressing well. |
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21st May 2022 7:37am |
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| kenzle8a Member Since: 12 Feb 2020 Location: None Posts: 1074 
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I saw a post somewhere that Shabs from syncro gearboxes was working on such things.
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21st May 2022 8:12am |
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| PCM Member Since: 25 Jan 2019 Location: North East Posts: 862
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Sweet... Pinged them a mail. Thanks
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21st May 2022 10:10am |
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| Gasket Member Since: 30 May 2020 Location: Manchester Posts: 629 |
I'm not far behind you.
I have a defender, three series rovers and a modern Hyundai EV. I will be converting the defender and I've been delaying rebuilding one of my series vehicles until the battery prices come down as I can't bring myself to spend the time needed to rebuild the ICE drivetrain. Unfortunately, I don't think we're quite there. While a conversion today is very possible, it is a lot of money for something that is going to change quite quickly. I've been monitoring the EV conversion world for a lot of years now, trying to keep up. I'm certainly not any form of expert but happy to share some thoughts. My understanding is this: The old way: engine replacement Up until recently the standard course was to replace the engine with an electric motor and bolt it onto the standard gearbox - this was the same in all classics. The original motors (up to a few years ago) were basically industrial units, later moving forward into EV specific ones like the Hyper9. To answer your question above then there is already an off the shelf adaptor for the Land Rover to Hyper9 and similar motors, made by the Canadian Electric Vehicle company. This is the only link with a picture of the adaptor I could find https://legacyev.com/products/41, but there's plenty out there. The main company addess is this: https://canev.com/pages/high-performance-classic-cars - the chap in Oz that built an electric lightweight used one of the Canadian plates too. This is likely to be R380/LT77 rather than MT82. They look like an old school engine adaptor ring, just red. This approach is the one best suited to the DIY market as most of the parts can be bought quite cheaply. Indeed, the motor, inverter, most of the battery boxes and wiring/electric pumps etc are comparable to ICE equivalent parts if you assume a full engine rebuild in there too. However its the cost of the batteries that makes it still very expensive: enough CALB packs to give a useful range are circa £8-16k At this stage in development, Tesla battery units (which have a very nice form factor, are masively energy dense and have efficient cooling options) were still exceptionally expensive - so the majority of conversions - even the 6-figure ones used generic CALB battery packs. These are relatively cheap individually, but have limited capacity - so ranges of 60-120 miles in saloons (less in 4x4) were common. This is the approach that was taken in most of the original headline conversions: the likes of EV west, most of the back catalogue from Electric Classic Cars too, regardless of marque: VW, Ferrari, Porsche, Range Rovers (occasionally with twin motors) etc. However, for me it was not appealing. You still need a clutch, a mainbox and a transfer box - when you drive it you'll basically use 3rd gear for everything - maybe putting it into top on a very long run, but the gearbox is largely unnecessary - just something to break and leak oil. Around this time, you'll see that a lot of the electronics and cooling elements look like they've either come from an industrial plant (fine) or from the back of a PC (less reassuring) - there is little that looks automotive OEM, The Land Rover concept Land Rover's electric Defender concept in 2013 was a step up. In this case they replaced the engine and the main gearbox altogether with an electric motor which was bolted directly to the transfer box. Brilliant - while the need for gears in an electric road car is very small - so small a high torque motor can generally cope with anything, in a 4x4 you do need a very different torque curve so either a massive motor or a sensible sized motor and a 2-speed transfer box. Unfortunately the rest of the vehicle was largely unremarkable and the range was very low. The current take Finally, someone replaces the whole shebang with a single Tesla drive unit turned 90-degrees to drive the front and rear simultaneously. Its now getting viable - the vehicles produced by Electric Classic Cars can get up to 200 miles, depending on the number of Tesla battery packs used. The rest of the components are becoming more and more automotive OEM looking too. Still not there, but very close. But... price is the factor. The 'old way' is entirely DIY-able and can be done for circa £20-£30k depending on how many batteries you want. You'll never get massive range, but can be OK for a pottering work car. The 'current take' is circa £100k to get a kit if you can find one. You could do it less on a DIY basis - none of the installation is particularly complex and the control units with firmware can be bought. However all current/high tech (and realistically viable as a main car) approaches rely heavily on Tesla-sourced parts. There's no getting away from buying at least a large drive unit (£3k) and between 10 and 16 tesla battery packs (which are far more energy dense than others and a nicer form factor) to give sensible range - at £1100-1300 each. That's £14,000 to £23,800 just on the motor and batteries - before you've bought or built any part of the actual kit to fit it. Bearing in mind the cost of a Tesla based conversion, with a reasonable range… would be about the same price as buying a used Tesla… it kind of makes sense to leave the vehicle whole until their used parts prices drop. If there was a purpose built kit available for £25k that would give a usable 250 miles in range I would buy it tomorrow - it would be a big investment but to me, worth it. The issue is that all of the changes above, from the shonky DIY kit to the high-tech tesla conversions show massive development - rendering the early conversions obsolete - and all that's happened in the space of about 8 years. Needless to say in the next few years, OEM-quality conversion kits will be made available at a fraction of the price with a much larger range. So to me, I would encourage anyone who can afford it to do a conversion now as it'll prove the engineering and will drive down the price. Meanwhile, I'll take advantage of this development and will wait a few more years until the battery sizes have reduced by 30% so they don't encroach in the passenger areas, for the price to drop to far less than the price of a new car and for the range to increase. Our factory EV has an official range of 280 miles. Without heating, aircon, wipers, heated seats, GPS or headlights - if you turn anything on, the range drops and 200 is more realistic in winter. Investing that amount of money in a conversion would need to yield a 250 mile range after flicking on every switch in the defender. |
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26th May 2022 6:57pm |
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