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Gleo



Member Since: 01 Mar 2016
Location: Mayo
Posts: 43
Isle Of Man 
Re: Ineos Customer Service Replied...

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thepetrolhead wrote:
They have replied. The commercial is N1. The load capacity has yet to be completed as no production vehicles are ready to be tested.


Ineos advised me last Friday that to get N1 crew cab status the rear set of seats get moved forward 70mm I think, the brackets are already there from production to allow for this, and then a dog guard will slot in behind the seating area into the handypre moulded hangers...so no templating and drilling in cages/ dog guards like one does on the Discovery , etc

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Post #950939 28th Apr 2022 11:26pm
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thepetrolhead



Member Since: 30 Jul 2013
Location: South West
Posts: 236
United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Oslo Blue
VAT compliance.
My accountant has told me the Commercial (N1) will be eligible for super deduction, but my company will not be able to get the VAT back, due to not meeting the minimum load capacity.

Maximum load capacity is 856kg, needs to be more than 1000kg (1048kg I think!)

Hopefully the pickup will be compliant 🤔
Post #951109 30th Apr 2022 2:20pm
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familymad



Member Since: 13 Dec 2011
Location: Bucks
Posts: 3461
 2016 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Santorini Black
Shame about the VAT. Would have been a real steal 1951 80" S1 2.0
1995 110 300TDI
1995 90 300TDI
Post #965034 14th Sep 2022 8:21pm
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camelman



Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3314
United Kingdom 
That sounds like it is being treated as a car then, not a van for vat purposes? Does this imply youll also get hit for.company car tax rather than van tax as a benefit in kind? That would be huge (effectively taxed at 30% of the list price each year) 
Post #965039 14th Sep 2022 8:39pm
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thepetrolhead



Member Since: 30 Jul 2013
Location: South West
Posts: 236
United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Oslo Blue
VAT Compliant
As I started this post some time ago.

Unfortunately, I had to cancel my order due to my accountant saying "No - you'll not get your VAT back"....

I was wondering how many new buyers have successfully got their VAT back on their N1 commercial vehicles, who are not using it purely for business, but are paying the BIK for personal use.
Post #1003019 4th Aug 2023 3:13pm
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camelman



Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3314
United Kingdom 
BIK due to the emissions is 37% of the vehicles new list price Shocked 
Post #1003022 4th Aug 2023 4:05pm
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Mr Fox



Member Since: 10 Sep 2011
Location: green & pleasant land
Posts: 1022
United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Keswick Green
On another forum, this was posted by a user who reached out to Ineos - it would appear to be pretty conclusive:

Quote:
I reached out to Mark Tennant and Gary Pearson, (Head of Sales & Marketing, UK, INEOS Automotive) and got a response from Gary

"Hi Jeremy,

thanks for connecting; hopefully either Mark Tennant said I would be in touch or you made the link! Happy to answer this and we are actually prepping a FAQ document to offer to the online forums and Facebook groups that include this amongst other things. On the DVLA side we’re all fine and N1 approved for the lower road tax, road fund licence etc. on 2- and 5-seat non-Belstaff models. HMRC side is trickier (not least because their list of approved vehicles is in helpfully from 2014) so we haven’t made claims regarding VAT, BIK or NIC for that reason.

We have focussed on the core competency of the vehicle, not its UK tax status not least because it’s a global vehicle and tax policy can change at any time. HMRC want either a Tonne+ payload or a specification that meets their definition of a car-derived van. They set this out very clearly and Grenadier doesn’t meet either of these in its current form (not the 2-seat or the 5-seat).

We know that on the customer side of things, there are many customers with a tax situation where they have their own plans or options but that’s for individuals to investigate. For every 10 customers I speak to I’d say I get at least 6 different views as to what they will do/what their situation is.

Personally I would like to see the 2-seater approved as a commercial as I think it fits the bill, certainly far more than many other vehicles that have the status. Approaching HMRC is something we have as an option now we have all of the finalised homologation data but this is not a straightforward matter either.

I agree with you that it’s unlikely they would give us the status on the 5-seater. We are constantly updating our information that is held at customer services, in our Press Q&As and on our website and we’re making another change to the website text soon to make it clearer. I hope that helps? Do you think a FAQ for the online groups would be useful? We offered some of the groups this a while back but thought we’d revisit it. Grateful for feedback as we know it’s complex.

Best, Gary"


Source of quote: https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/113131-the-...grenadier/

I spoke with my accountant because a 4/5 seat commercial, which wasn't a pickup, would have been a useful commercial vehicle for my business and even prior to the above his answer was: DVLA may view it as an N1 but HMRC do not.
Post #1003038 4th Aug 2023 6:09pm
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lightning



Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2217
United Kingdom 
How did Land Rover get the new two seat Defender classified as Commercial for VAT purposes?
Post #1005433 25th Aug 2023 6:25pm
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kenzle8a



Member Since: 12 Feb 2020
Location: None
Posts: 1074
 
I'm surprised the two seat one isn't as its got the same layout as the 110 and Disco 5 commercials which all have less than one tonne of payload.
Post #1005435 25th Aug 2023 6:41pm
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lightning



Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2217
United Kingdom 
Possibly weight of persuasion by Land Rover as l don't think the new Defender Commercial strictly qualifies.

However the fact that it does, has saved me £14,000 in tax immediately and that's not including the VAT which l can't claim as l am not VAT registered

Also BIK is only £700 per year.

lt makes the Defender a bit of a bargain in Commercial variant, if you can call £40,000 for a small van a bargain
Post #1005439 25th Aug 2023 7:21pm
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kenzle8a



Member Since: 12 Feb 2020
Location: None
Posts: 1074
 
Seems like none of them count as CDV Car derived vans or Dual Purpose, all stuck with lower speed limits,.

and none of them can be dual purpose as they weigh too much unladen.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications...e-vehicles
Post #1005544 27th Aug 2023 8:03am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16856
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
lord-haggis wrote:
Seems like none of them count as CDV Car derived vans or Dual Purpose, all stuck with lower speed limits,.

and none of them can be dual purpose as they weigh too much unladen.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications...e-vehicles


CDV vehicle type has no relevance whatsoever to a vehicle of this sort.

According to Parker's guide, the annual road tax on all the models of Grenadier which the guide lists (which is only the standard version, the Trialmaster and the Fieldmaster, there is no mention of specific commercial versions) is £570 for years 2 to 6, the first year is of course even more heavily loaded.

£570 per annum for years 2 to 6 appears to be the standard rate for an M1 type approved vehicle, if it was N1 it would be a mere £320 per annum without the first year loading and without the years 2 to 6 loading (so much more attractive).

If the vehicle is M1 type approved it is not subject to light goods vehicle speed limits.

You are correct that no Grenadier in the current line-up can fall into the definition of a Dual Purpose Vehicle since the unladen weight is too great, so any N1 type-approved variants would be speed restricted, however the saving of £3535 in road tax over the first six years makes this quite palatable.

Whether ot not the vehicle is considered commercial for HMRC purposes has nothing whatsoever to do with its C&U classification or its road tax status. HMRC makes its own rules and decisions and seems to answer to no-one.
Post #1005550 27th Aug 2023 10:35am
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