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seriesonenut



Member Since: 19 Nov 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 1205

United Kingdom 
Series brake cylinder problem
A bit of Christmas Eve tinkering today on the front brakes on my series one. I have hit a problem and not sure how to overcome it. Having fitted the replacement wheel cylinder I cannot compress the shoes to allow the drum to fit. I have backed off the adjuster and un-clamped the hose. The pistons do move in a bit but come out as soon as I stop pushing them in.

Any suggestions? (and merry Christmas)


Click image to enlarge
fuvf1 by Richard Holmes, on Flickr


Click image to enlarge
fuvf2 by Richard Holmes, on Flickr 2010 XS USW
1957 Series One 88 diesel
1958 Series One 88 4x2
Post #934952 24th Dec 2021 3:13pm
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4350

United Kingdom 
In that last picture the left hand side of the brake cylinder looks to be extended. The gaiter looks to be bulging. Is the cylinder duff perhaps?
Post #934956 24th Dec 2021 3:29pm
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seriesonenut



Member Since: 19 Nov 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 1205

United Kingdom 
It feels like a pressure thing, the two pistons move together, the trailing edge one will compress a bit but the leading edge (front) seems solid. Before fitting they both moved but were extended at rest. 2010 XS USW
1957 Series One 88 diesel
1958 Series One 88 4x2
Post #934958 24th Dec 2021 3:35pm
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4350

United Kingdom 
Hmmm... Can you compress the two pistons using a G-clamp?
Post #934960 24th Dec 2021 4:07pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16812

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I've read somewhere that some modern wheel cylinders have internal springs which are much too powerful inside them, which pushes the pistons out (the spring should just ensure that the seal remains seated and square at all times). It looks as though you may have this problem.

The first step is to compress the pistons (if you can't do it by hand use a g-cramp as suggested above), if they immediately pop out to full extension again I suggest that you have a defective cylinder. It should be possible to push the pistons in by pressing (reasonably hard by hand) on the shoes. They should stay compressed.
Post #934961 24th Dec 2021 4:22pm
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seriesonenut



Member Since: 19 Nov 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 1205

United Kingdom 
Thanks. I will try a G clamp.

One other thought is could I have an airlock which is not allowing me to compress the pistons? 2010 XS USW
1957 Series One 88 diesel
1958 Series One 88 4x2
Post #934966 24th Dec 2021 5:13pm
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4350

United Kingdom 
The air lock would allow you to compress the piston more easily, surely Rolling Eyes
Post #934968 24th Dec 2021 5:29pm
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seriesonenut



Member Since: 19 Nov 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 1205

United Kingdom 
I have decided anything is possible with the brakes on it Rolling with laughter 2010 XS USW
1957 Series One 88 diesel
1958 Series One 88 4x2
Post #934969 24th Dec 2021 5:31pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16812

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
If you think it is a fluid- or air-related issue which is preventing you from pushing the pistons in, then open the bleed nipple and try again.
Post #934985 24th Dec 2021 7:04pm
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Devon-Rover



Member Since: 22 Jan 2015
Location: South Devon
Posts: 905

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Aintree Green
The pistons should freely push all the way back in, they will slowly creep back out when the cylinder is loose and the brake shoes not holding them in.

There should be no problem with pushing them all back when the hose is unclamped, Either the hose might of started to break up inside or maybe MC pushrod freeplay is not quite right and stopping the fluid flow back up the system, Hold old is the MC? I'm just spitballing here but the piston itself might of started to stick so not fully returning and the port isn't free to allow fluid return.

When you clamp and force the pistons in and you say come back out makes me think that all you have done is push the wheel cylinders out around the rest of the system which return to 'rest' when you release. Also can be found on Fb, Ytube, Insta & Twitter @4WDSouthwest
Post #935014 25th Dec 2021 9:31am
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seriesonenut



Member Since: 19 Nov 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 1205

United Kingdom 
Hi
The MC is as old as the vehicle but fitted with a new seal kit sometime in the last 3-5 years probably. I will try compressing then clamping then un-clamping to see what happens.......but not today Whistle 2010 XS USW
1957 Series One 88 diesel
1958 Series One 88 4x2
Post #935020 25th Dec 2021 10:13am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16812

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Internal hose faults is a good call, I once had brakes on a Series 1 which would apply but not release - the pedal pressure would push fluid through the defecting hose but the return springs were insufficient to push it back.

A similar effect can happen if the push-rod on the master cylinder has been adjusted incorrectly so that the port to the reservoir remains covered by the seals.
Post #935027 25th Dec 2021 10:59am
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3141

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
Re: Series brake cylinder problem
seriesonenut wrote:
The pistons do move in a bit but come out as soon as I stop pushing them in.


Not an expert on series brakes, but I guess very similar to early 90/110 rear drum brakes. I believe that the trailing shoe is designed to push slightly out by itself - kind of a self adjusting.
The leading she is pulled back by the spring on the adjuster cam.

Depends how hard it is to push the slave in.. but I do not expect it to be super light. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #935028 25th Dec 2021 11:50am
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strang



Member Since: 16 May 2012
Location: Happy Valley
Posts: 1362

United Kingdom 2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green
Tim for a Zeus disc brake conversion maybe......... Very Happy Euro-Leafing to infinity and beyond.....
Post #935048 25th Dec 2021 5:16pm
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Devon-Rover



Member Since: 22 Jan 2015
Location: South Devon
Posts: 905

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Aintree Green
Strang wrote:
Time for a Zeus disc brake conversion maybe......... Very Happy


Well I wouldn't be one to argue the logic here ^^

Whistle


Click image to enlarge


My 2a restoration went disc as TBH I got fed up with the constant brake setting - adjusting - maintaining cycle I was stuck in, It was a bi - monthly thing. Also can be found on Fb, Ytube, Insta & Twitter @4WDSouthwest
Post #935058 25th Dec 2021 8:49pm
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