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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4430

Ireland 
A hypothetical conversation about...engine oil
Had a conversation with someone the other night about....engine oil. (This will give you an idea as to what the rest of the conversation was like Laughing ). Anyway the nub of the conversion was, had engine oil of the early 1990's been of the same specifications and quality as it is today, would the servicing interval have been 12.000 miles/12 months instead of the 6.000 miles/6 months as then specified?
Even basic 10W-40 today is well advanced compared to oil of the early 1990's.
When I bought a turbo diesel 90 in 1990 the specified oil/filter change was 3.000 miles but if I used a higher grade listed in the handbook it could be extended to 6.000 miles. We were just curious that if the same yard stick was applied to today's oil compared to the 1990's would the same principle apply?
Now I will be the first to admit that the remainder of the conservation was not to this high level. We were not in a pub and no alcohol was consumed prior to or during the conversation. The aftermath is another matter Mr. Green 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #927223 26th Oct 2021 4:20pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3993

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
I’m not sure what the question is? Is modern synthetic better than olden days mineral oil? I would say certainly yes. But even all synthetics are not equal, some are better than others. Fuch Titan Race Pros S is a superior oil to say Comma XTech even though they are both synthetic. A better oil can extend service intervalbut the safe interval can only be determined by oil analysis. When Audis had the option of whether or not to use a fixed service interval, or an extended variable interval, a different oil was sprcified for each.

Other factors at play will be state of the engine in terms of wear and sealing of the combustion gasses. Also, the appropriate oil for the application is important. Does it need to handle flat tappets or DPF regens etc? There will be circumstances where going to a “better” oil derives little or no benefit because the oil in use is good enough for the engine and it’s use.

There are(or were) a lot of technical articles on the Opie Oils website that got into the detail of this sort of stuff. It’s an interesting subject. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #927230 26th Oct 2021 4:55pm
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Shroppy



Member Since: 25 Feb 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 846

United Kingdom 1986 Defender 130 V8 Petrol HCPU Aintree Green
An interesting question and one I've pondered from time to time, I have done some reading on the subject but have settled on the following (happy to be proved wrong).

1. Super high service intervals are a false economy, lots of drivers will exceed it, pushing it up to 14,16, 18k miles. No engine will thank you for that no matter how fancy the oil.

2. I always opt to replace the oil and filter as often as practicable, typically around the 4-6k mark. I don't go for the fanciest oil, nor the cheapest. I figure this limits wear but also means I'm not pouring money (or oil) away for the sake of it.

The above said, we are in a privileged position when we can consider such things! 1985 127 V8 Build Thread
Series 2 109"
Series 1 80"
Post #927245 26th Oct 2021 7:10pm
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90 Dreamer



Member Since: 13 Jul 2019
Location: Oop North
Posts: 2045

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey
Bear in mind that the main driver for extended service intervals (IMO) is the reduced fleet / HP cost and in general has no bearing on longevity but simply about keeping the fleet sales and lease customers on a lower payment.......

All puns intended....... Whistle
Post #927247 26th Oct 2021 7:19pm
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Rashers



Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3328

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
I agree 90 Dreamer Thumbs Up

I am a firm believer that service intervals have largely been dictated by fleet buyers who with the best will in the world, would rather keep your monthly payments than spend it on servicing. If the engine blows up in 7 years time because it was poorly serviced, they will be long shot of the problem.

I also agree that synthetic oils are far superior but servicing also includes things like inspections for faults like tyres for example. Most eurobox owners won’t even look at their tyres between services let alone check the pressure.

It may be why the hourly rate and main dealer servicing has shot up in recent years, to try and recoup some of the lost monies?

For example, in my experiences, most company lease vehicles are not serviced so much as ‘inspected’. That was what was written on my service books on numerous company cars. They only do what they are paid to do. For example, none of my old company cars ever had their tracking altered. None of the leasing companies would pay for it. They would replace tyres, valve, balance but not tracking - even if the tyres were being scrubbed out. But then they never put expensive tyres on the motors and I expect they got a better deal from ATS / National / Kwik Fit than what me and you would.

That’s a little off subject but other factors come in to play. You can add the most expensive oil you can buy to an engine, but if you are doing lots short trips and hard working a cold engine, I don’t suppose any engine is going to do well on that?
Post #927251 26th Oct 2021 7:43pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4430

Ireland 
I remember some years ago my company van went in for a service. The garage phoned the lease company to tell them that the hand brake needed tightened. It was not on the specified service and they would not tighten it until the lease company gave them the go ahead. The reason they would not do it without permission is they would not get paid for the extra time involved! 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #927252 26th Oct 2021 7:51pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4430

Ireland 
Thumbs Up
Shroppy wrote:
An interesting question and one I've pondered from time to time, I have done some reading on the subject but have settled on the following (happy to be proved wrong).

1. Super high service intervals are a false economy, lots of drivers will exceed it, pushing it up to 14,16, 18k miles. No engine will thank you for that no matter how fancy the oil.

2. I always opt to replace the oil and filter as often as practicable, typically around the 4-6k mark. I don't go for the fanciest oil, nor the cheapest. I figure this limits wear but also means I'm not pouring money (or oil) away for the sake of it.

The above said, we are in a privileged position when we can consider such things!
 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #927254 26th Oct 2021 8:01pm
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Rashers



Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3328

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
Exactly the experience I had with leased vehicles, Spud Fan 👍
One of my company cars did 100k without an oil change (as far as I am aware). It got topped up but that was all. I knew the Aftersales Manager quite well. That’s how I know.
Tyres were a nightmare at weekends as the leasing companies offices would be shut and tyre fitters were reluctant to do anything without the all important authorisation code 😳
Post #927256 26th Oct 2021 8:04pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4430

Ireland 
Could not even change a wiper blade or change a bulb! The lease company had a contract with a non local garage to do this. I'd phone my transport department, they would phone the lease company who would phone me for details then arrange for someone from the garage to come and change the bulb or the wiper blade which involved 40 mile round trip! I queried this non sensical behaviour with the company and they told me they had an all in deal with the lease company which covered these things. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #927263 26th Oct 2021 8:39pm
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Rashers



Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3328

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
One of the lease companies my old company used told us to call the RAC if a lamp went and they would come out and change it Shocked
You have to feel for the garages / repair outfits. You know they are being screwed to the lowest possible price by a bloke in sales who made a big bonus out of the agreement.
We had to use Dunlop tyres but the tyre place they insisted we used never stocked them.
Post #927265 26th Oct 2021 8:49pm
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Rashers



Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3328

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
I used to have Skoda Octavia’s. Great motors. I loved both mine. On top of the engine was a sticker ‘Skoda recommends Shell Helix’. The Main Dealer didn’t even stock Shell Helix. I expect the oil they used in servicing was bought in bulk and as long as it was the correct spec, everyone was a winner?

I have always wondered about commercial garages. The oil, water, air is dispensed from over head reels. Not all engines run the same spec oil but there only seems to be one dispenser over each work station. Anyone in the motor trade care to discuss?
Post #927267 26th Oct 2021 9:00pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4430

Ireland 
I remember seeing a mechanic in overalls from a maindealer in a supermarket carrying a shopping basket with engine oil and screenwash in it. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #927271 26th Oct 2021 9:12pm
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kenzle8a



Member Since: 12 Feb 2020
Location: None
Posts: 1074

 
I’ve always run fuchs titan pro s in my road cars, fantastic stuff. I’ve heard a lot of good things about the various millers oils as well. The manufacture recommended stuff is largely marketing bumf, my cooper s said castrol on the cam cover but bmw at the time only used Mobil for them, stuff like my chums m3 did have a specific oil for it but most run of the mill stuff needs the right grade / spec regardless of the brand.

My Alfas service manual said for winter driving to use 5w30 and summer or track use to use 10w50.
Post #927276 26th Oct 2021 9:59pm
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AT1963



Member Since: 08 Jul 2020
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 148

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 90 Td5 Black LE Java Black
Maybe as worrying is the notion that when these cars are sold on with full service history this is stretching the truth.
TBH- id rather buy from someone who can show me the receipts for the items brought (filters etc) and record the mileage when they serviced and id be much happier even if they did service themselves.
Post #927352 27th Oct 2021 2:32pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4430

Ireland 
I mentioned this before a few years ago but as it seems relevant to the topic in hand I'll mention it again.
Someone who used to drive heavy earth moving machinery in far off places told me that they used to check how the oil was doing by pulling the dipstick through a finger and thumb and wiping them with a cloth. If all of the oil came off the fingers the oil was still good. If the oil left a residue that had to be washed off the fingers it was done and needed a change. Fair enough oil has moved on since then but the principle still holds.
It is probably of no benefit to us as we would never go beyond specified service schedules but if you were buying a vehicle or going with someone to check over a vehicle it is a good way of checking the oil. You will know then if it has been changed or just run on old oil.
I went with someone to look at a 110 some years ago as they had no experience of Land Rovers. When I was checking the oil the owner said that it was black as all diesels made oil black. I did they oil finger check and it stuck to my fingers like paint. I told him to walk away. The oil had not been changed for a long time.
I know oil is carcinogenic but you will get more on your fingers doing an oil change. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #927356 27th Oct 2021 2:51pm
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