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PeteCrenshaw



Member Since: 05 Aug 2021
Location: Perth
Posts: 14
Australia 2006 Defender 110 2.5 TD XS CSW Chawton White
Defender TD5 Misstart and Drop in Power
Got a Defender TD5 2006. Very intermittently (maybe 10% of the time) it doesn't start on the first attempt. It does start properly on the subsequent attempt, but after driving for a few seconds it gives me a brief check engine light coupled with a brief drop in power - a kind of 'lurching' sensation.

I plugged it into a nanocom and it gave the fault code: (15,2) HIGH SPEED CRANK (LOGGED). Replaced the Crankshaft Position Sensor with a genuine Lucas model, yet the problem persists.

Has anyone experienced this as well or know what else it could be?? I'm getting a bit desperate here! The problem occurs so infrequently that I feel it would be hard to diagnose or confirm that it has been fixed Sad

P.S. There's no oil in the injector loom or ECU. The problem also doesn't appear to be weather related - it's occurred on warm, sunny afternoons and cold rainy nights.
Post #915559 5th Aug 2021 6:43am
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AT1963



Member Since: 08 Jul 2020
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 148
United Kingdom 2006 Defender 90 Td5 Black LE Java Black
Not sure if relevant but i had intermittent starting which turned out to be injector seals needed replacing.
BTW- initially used non genuine but problem returned so used genuine and has been fine since.
Post #915562 5th Aug 2021 7:16am
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barbel jim



Member Since: 12 Dec 2012
Location: Northants
Posts: 1411
United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 HT Tonga Green
Sounds electrical check the main relay under the drivers seat
Post #915669 5th Aug 2021 7:09pm
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PeteCrenshaw



Member Since: 05 Aug 2021
Location: Perth
Posts: 14
Australia 2006 Defender 110 2.5 TD XS CSW Chawton White
barbel jim wrote:
Sounds electrical check the main relay under the drivers seat


Thanks for the tip! Will check those relays out.
Post #915733 6th Aug 2021 8:27am
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Hazza



Member Since: 10 Jan 2011
Location: North Yorkshire / Leeds
Posts: 208
United Kingdom 1990 Defender 110 Td5 HT Bronze Green
Could also be chafed/damaged crank position wiring. Difficult to test/check but if suspected you can buy replacement wires with the correct connector and shielding.

Failing starter motors can also cause spikes which the CPS doesn't like - you can diagnose this by bump/tow starting and seeing if you get the same issues or not. 1990 Defender 110 200TDI Camper - now converted to Td5 power
Post #915741 6th Aug 2021 9:14am
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PeteCrenshaw



Member Since: 05 Aug 2021
Location: Perth
Posts: 14
Australia 2006 Defender 110 2.5 TD XS CSW Chawton White
Some exciting Rolling Eyes news! After going for a drive today, I let the car sit for 10 minutes and upon trying to start it up again it did this (note the needle to red and lack of engine/glow plug light):

https://youtu.be/m_9DT82y4w4

Any more ideas? I checked the 4 relays and they all look clean with no corrosion.
Post #916651 13th Aug 2021 8:06am
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Hazza



Member Since: 10 Jan 2011
Location: North Yorkshire / Leeds
Posts: 208
United Kingdom 1990 Defender 110 Td5 HT Bronze Green
Try checking the main ECU earth, it's in the seatbox with the ECU. Give it a good clean.

Also check main earth points, battery to chassis/chassis to transferbox 1990 Defender 110 200TDI Camper - now converted to Td5 power
Post #916652 13th Aug 2021 8:10am
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jim4244



Member Since: 13 Apr 2014
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 627
England 1998 Defender 90 300 Tdi CSW Epsom Green
Have you checked the easy things?

1/ New fuel filter.
2/ The air bleed and non return rubber valve in the fuel filter housing.
3/ The fuel pump.
5/ Injector seals.

I would check in the above order and see if there are any problems there first. My thoughts are if it was running fine and suddenly developed the symptoms you describe it will be one of the above.

Jim
Post #916657 13th Aug 2021 8:56am
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PeteCrenshaw



Member Since: 05 Aug 2021
Location: Perth
Posts: 14
Australia 2006 Defender 110 2.5 TD XS CSW Chawton White
jim4244 wrote:
Have you checked the easy things?

1/ New fuel filter.
2/ The air bleed and non return rubber valve in the fuel filter housing.
3/ The fuel pump.
5/ Injector seals.

I would check in the above order and see if there are any problems there first. My thoughts are if it was running fine and suddenly developed the symptoms you describe it will be one of the above.

Jim


Thanks Jim, I've done all of those. I'm fairly sure this problem is electrical.

Hazza wrote:
Try checking the main ECU earth, it's in the seatbox with the ECU. Give it a good clean.

Also check main earth points, battery to chassis/chassis to transferbox


Cheers Hazza - I was also leaning towards an earth issue. I've checked the seatbox earth and it looks completely fine, not a trace of dirt or anything. I'm going to check the primary earth points to the chassis tomorrow. I suspect the culprit might be the ones on the gearbox, since the problem usually occurs after having driven.

I'm dropping the car off at an auto electrician next Tuesday. Asking him to fit a wire straight from the -ve battery terminal to the ECU - hopefully that'll be the end of it. If anyone has any other suggestions before then, I'm all ears Smile
Post #916659 13th Aug 2021 9:13am
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dorsetsmith



Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554
1. check crash cut-off switch at the back engine bay ( if it has failed or is not closed cuts dc power to one side main relay coil and also stops fuel pump from running )

2. Is main relay in under seat fuse box third one in from drivers foot well end and fifth one in is fuel pump relay both relay must engage for the engine to start an run

3. when you try to start the engine is the fuel pump running ?

4. as before earthing ( including chasse to body work ) drivers side flat brad



Click image to enlarge

this showns the relay lay out in order but most of the time it runs out order i.e. 1-2-4-5-3-6
Post #916669 13th Aug 2021 9:45am
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Hazza



Member Since: 10 Jan 2011
Location: North Yorkshire / Leeds
Posts: 208
United Kingdom 1990 Defender 110 Td5 HT Bronze Green
Just watched the video again and noticed that you don't have the EML illuminating. Almost certainly something directly affecting the ECU. 1990 Defender 110 200TDI Camper - now converted to Td5 power
Post #916748 13th Aug 2021 3:10pm
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4395
United Kingdom 
I am having tis same problem with my TD5, it is an irritating problem to have. Keep getting the 16.2 High crank speed and noise crank signal faults when the engine doesn't fire up. Complete pain.

So fault diagnosis, this is where I am at

Electrical system

Relays - Under the drivers seat. Open the relay up and check the contacts, they corrode over time. Can stop fuel pump.
Earth points - Chassis and ECU. Clean up, grease and replace.
Sensor connector - Check for corrosion of the terminals
Sensor wiring - Continuity check the sensor wiring. This is known to get brittle and fracture. There are by-pass looms to replace this. Or you can make one yourself with twin core shielded wire, connector and shouldered in to the red ECU plug.
Sensor - Fairly robust units. Replace if unsure, but it is more likely the wiring.
Starter motor - This is known to "interfere" with the signal from the crank sensor at start-up, especially budget motors. Shielding the wiring may help. Wrap sensor wiring with tinfoil to test?!

Fuel system

Injector seals - Check for diesel smell in oil. Maintenance item. Replace.
Fuel regulator - Check for leaks
Fuel filter one way valve and filter - Known to fail and allow fuel to empty from engine.
Fuel filter housing - Known to corrode at the inlet/outlet connections and allow air in to the system.
Fuel pump - Is it working? Is it pumping at the required pressure. Can make all the right noises and not be pumping correctly.


I am at the stage of creating a bypass parallel loom back to the ECU. So, two core screened cable (approx. 1m), sensor connector (think it is an Econoseal connector?) and pins, plus pins for the red ECU plug.

Should be a nice evening project... Rolling with laughter

EDIT: Just ordered the parts to do the bypass loom - £13 all in. Not bad if it works Wink
Post #917077 15th Aug 2021 4:04pm
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PeteCrenshaw



Member Since: 05 Aug 2021
Location: Perth
Posts: 14
Australia 2006 Defender 110 2.5 TD XS CSW Chawton White
Finally fixed (or at least diagnosed) the problem! Turned out to be the main relay. I've now tightened up all its connections and pushed the relay in as far as I can. Mind you, there was absolutely no dirt or corrosion on it, so it seems they can be faulty even if they look ok on the surface.

Massive thanks to barbel jim, Hazza, dorsetsmith and everyone else! People like you make owning a Land Rover slightly less stressful Laughing
Post #918078 21st Aug 2021 6:52am
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barbel jim



Member Since: 12 Dec 2012
Location: Northants
Posts: 1411
United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 HT Tonga Green
Might be worth replacing the relay anyways. All the contacts look good and tight, but inside the relay will probably be pitted from the constant on/off. Mine still did it until I replaced the relay Thumbs Up
Post #918086 21st Aug 2021 9:03am
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PeteCrenshaw



Member Since: 05 Aug 2021
Location: Perth
Posts: 14
Australia 2006 Defender 110 2.5 TD XS CSW Chawton White
barbel jim wrote:
Might be worth replacing the relay anyways. All the contacts look good and tight, but inside the relay will probably be pitted from the constant on/off. Mine still did it until I replaced the relay Thumbs Up

Good call! Going to do that now. Out of interest, do you know if the relays need a resistor? My local auto electrics store has two types of 12V 40A relays - one with and one without a resistor. Not sure which one to get Sad
Post #918540 24th Aug 2021 2:13pm
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