 | Home > Off Topic > JLR sales - Defender is a success! |
 
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16856   
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I wonder how many of the purchasers of those Defenders would have bought a different JLR product if the Defender wasn't available. Whilst the sales figures undoubtedly indicate that the vehicle has appeal (to some people, anyway!) they do not in isolation give an indication of the commercial success of the vehicle.
One of the comments raised frequently in discussion of the current JLR line-up is that it is predominantly its own competition, which is far from ideal. As an aside, I bet that if the same manufacturing, quality control, and sales effort had been put into the classic Defender in its last year it would have sold as many vehicles as this, albeit not at the same ridiculous price nor the same (hopefully) healthy margin! |
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20th Jul 2021 1:50pm |
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| mikeh501 Member Since: 07 Jan 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1142
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Be interested to see some previous years as you say, and id agree their will be cannibalisation of other product sales, but its not going to be 100%. in the context of JLR id say definate success..... still wouldnt buy one.
no surprise on the D5 either. what a let down from D4. hoping the grenadier would make a great d4.5 |
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20th Jul 2021 1:54pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3183  
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Was it Richard Hammond in one of the new Defender review where he stated it is the best Discovery so far? 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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20th Jul 2021 2:27pm |
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| discomog Member Since: 09 May 2015 Location: Notts/Lincs Border Posts: 2494 
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I wonder how many they would have sold if they'd let Gerry offset the rear number plate
 Defender 90XS SW
Mini Countryman Cooper S Morgan Plus 8 |
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20th Jul 2021 5:50pm |
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| pjm-84 Member Since: 12 Apr 2021 Location: Hampshire Posts: 639
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I was going to buy a D5 P360 ..... Wife......why?
Defender P400 XS 110 ......Wife.....yes we need a new car. Why don't you order one. It will save us having to consider the Discovery |
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20th Jul 2021 6:22pm |
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| Chawks Member Since: 19 Feb 2017 Location: Dorset Posts: 118
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I stopped at a local marina the other day and there were at least 5 new Defenders parked up, not one Discovery in sight.
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20th Jul 2021 8:17pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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Any measure? JLR's original forecasts were 100k per annum, so against that measure it's not been a good start.
Last full financial year for the old Defender, April 15 to March 16, saw 22.5k sales, so not sure where 4x comes from? In any event, old defender sales are not really a benchmark to measure success of the new one against as "low sales" was one of the reasons quoted for scrapping it!
How do you factor this into the new Defender "success"? The other factor you seem to be ignoring in that in the last quarter JLR has clearly priortised parts for the Defender line over all other lines and wholesaled more than any other model, presumably because it's margins on the model are higher than on others. |
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21st Jul 2021 10:15am |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3333 
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Could the old Defender production line have coped with the numbers of new ones being produced? Absolutely not!
When I purchased mine, second hand, the Salesman said he could not reserve me a new build (old Defender) because they had sold their quota and they had a waiting list. I think many more could have been sold if there had been capacity. Has the new Defender been a success? For JLR, undoubtedly. The reviews, in general have been excellent. Whether financially it is a success, that non of us will ever know. They have obviously put everything into this vehicle. Personally, I think their biggest faux pas was not having anything ready at the end of production of the old one in Solihull. Who knows how many buyers moved to different marques in the hinterland land when there was no Defender. |
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21st Jul 2021 10:54am |
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| Orchard Member Since: 07 May 2015 Location: Usually walking the dog Posts: 258 |
Supacat - I don't know how to do this clever quote thing so;
- 100k sales forecast is not correct. It's pretty much hitting planning volumes, so by that measure it is a success. - Old Defender sales - The last full year of old Defender production at c.23k was 35% higher than previous years when the running rate was c.17k per year, so by my maths 4x17=68, and it looks like new Defender will do >70k this year, i.e 4 times. - Discovery vs Defender. You can't necessarily conflate low sales of Discovery to Defender selling more. Sure there will be some cross shopping, and there will be many reasons behind buyer choices that are only understood by asking real customers. - Not sure you can surmise that Defender has been prioritised by looking at wholesales which are notoriously misleading. They are adjusted for all kinds of reasons like stock levels, supply chain, shipping times etc e.g. if you have too much stock you should/can reduce wholesales without affecting retails, which is a good thing for working cap and cashflow, but it 'looks like' production is falling and scares people. 2015 90 XS SW Bowler 1998 TD5 CSW |
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21st Jul 2021 12:29pm |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1350 
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They did have something ready and the old Defender line was cleared to make space for it. That vehicle was the Jaguar F Pace. |
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21st Jul 2021 6:28pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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 Click image to enlarge There's a few assumptions in this but...it's looks like it's going to take until January 2022 before JLR recover the volume of "lost" sales from not having the new Defender in production before the old one ceased. |
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21st Jul 2021 8:12pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Story from Automotive News originally: "With the all-new Defender, Land Rover aims to shift around 100,000 units each year and to achieve that the company plans to have a varied lineup with five members: two two-door models, a four-door long wheelbase, along with two- and four-door pickup derivatives that are unlikely to make it stateside. The new lineup will mirror the outgoing Defender, but McGovern mentions the vehicles will have more appeal to achieve a higher customer base compared to the old one." https://www.motor1.com/news/59960/new-land...dy-styles/ Sales volumes were covered under various threads at the time, here's a start: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic44107.html?highlight=suv+600 " Land Rover is aiming for 100,000 sales per year and the estimated demand for the Defender is about half of that, so there are doubts surrounding its return." "To be able to achieve more volume sales and manage a polished luxury aesthetic, though the two goals aren�t exactly mutually exclusive is a challenge, and if a solution cannot be reached then the Defender may either be pushed back past 2020 or the project may just be cancelled." And then there's this more recently from "Jaguar Land Rover Q1 Fiscal 2020/21 Results Call": Adrian Mardell (CFO, Jaguar Land Rover) - "We are confident...this [new Defender] has an opportunity...to grow beyond the 100,000 units." So against their own metric they are currently well short: Click image to enlarge And that's before getting into facts like of the first 22k orders, 11k were just dealer demos, management cars, etc...
But that's not what you said:
Let’s not forget Tata took over ownership in 2008, and see what happened to Defender sales from there on in. Click image to enlarge Last edited by Supacat on 22nd Jul 2021 9:43am. Edited 6 times in total |
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21st Jul 2021 8:18pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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With annual sales revenue down...
https://www.statista.com/statistics/386886...l-revenue/ And profits down... https://www.statista.com/statistics/387191...efore-tax/ I think the success or not of the Defender is immaterial. JLR's bizarre infatuation with competing with itself may prove to be its undoing. There aren't many who don't think the Defender is simply a Discovery (it ain't no Defender!), and I see a stretched Evoque in the press last week...competing with the Discovery, Range Rover and Defender! And in what weird world is a Defender more expensive than a Range Rover??? I have voiced (bored) my disdain for JLR management many times on car forums, and I was wrong about how long they would last. I said that by now, possibly BMW would have yet again bought JLR (though I've been told that there are still figures within BMW who wince when their memory is refreshed). Any company lives or dies on profit - even if you only make a pound. Any loss that is large obviously isn't sustainable. 2020 looked like a turnaround, but that £861 million loss last year looks like a dirty grey cloud on a hot summer's day. Sure, it might be covid. Sure, current problems might be chip shortage. But Tata can't sustain losses like that for long. I'm stunned that Tata haven't replaced the JLR management with their attitude towards the car market (of self-competing, of failing to use the Freelander, of continued up-marketing, of just general mismanagement - in my opinion). The success of the Defender will almost be like some form of pyrrhic victory for the sales team. 'Look at the sales, boys' 'Yes, but has anyone seen the Discovery sales?' Never mind that, has anyone seen the profits?' I say again, the Defender is merely the new Discovery. I see nothing to shake me from that belief. Now left. |
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21st Jul 2021 9:43pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Bang on. How could a car company let an icon disappear? But they did. Now left. |
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21st Jul 2021 9:48pm |
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