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BruceT



Member Since: 01 Nov 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 516
South Africa 
Smokey starting and rough idling - Puma 2.4
Hi All,

I have tried searching but perhaps I am not searching using the correct terms.

I have noticed lately that when I start my 2.4 Puma I get tons of black smoke and a very rough idle with what sounds like detonation.

Then when warmed up she seems to run fine except when driving at low revs there seems to be a detonation/rattle.

It also seems to be heavy on fuel.

I know it could be many things but Im hoping that someone may have an idea of exactly what it could be. Any ideas on how I can resolve this please?

Thank you "Overlanding With Bruce" - Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@OverlandingwithBruce
11MY Defender 130
23MY Defender 110 D300 HSE X-Dynamic

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzrHKcjA-LJ470_H4QwPgVA
Post #912998 19th Jul 2021 7:09am
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HardCharger



Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila, SFO, Amsterdam
Posts: 680
2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
Let's see...

There's the faulty VCV, dirty air sensors, clogged EGR for starters
Post #913052 19th Jul 2021 12:19pm
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BruceT



Member Since: 01 Nov 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 516
South Africa 
Im replacing the glow plugs as a precaution but never heard of the VCV before. Will have that checked also.

My EGR was deactivated a while ago.

Thank you for your reply "Overlanding With Bruce" - Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@OverlandingwithBruce
11MY Defender 130
23MY Defender 110 D300 HSE X-Dynamic

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzrHKcjA-LJ470_H4QwPgVA
Post #913056 19th Jul 2021 12:42pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 1788
United Kingdom 
Have you a code reader ? Diagnostic trouble codes (DTC’s) can help identify where the problems may be. Even the absence of DTC’s help as issues with maf, egr etc generally generate codes where as a faulty vcv does not.

If you don’t have a code reader ideally you are looking for someone nearby that has a nanocom or Gap diagnostics IIDTool as they are specific for a defender and really help understand how specific components are working. If no one can loan you one, and you don’t fancy spending approx R7k on one then a basic generic code reader such as a quality ELM327 Bluetooth reader and a free app like torque on your phone will flag up generic fault codes with maf, egr et and let you reset them. So always handy to have in your too kit.

In the absence of a reader, I would check your air filter and maf sensor first, including the wiring going to your maf sensor as that’s a problem area as well. You can get specific maf sensor cleaner on line, don’t use other chemicals. These are easy to do. Also check your hoses, including ones to turbo for splits, loose fitting etc.
Post #913060 19th Jul 2021 12:58pm
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BruceT



Member Since: 01 Nov 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 516
South Africa 
Thank you Ianh

I do have a basic code reader and found no codes. Will try and get the torque onto my phone. Thank you



We have had a cold spell lately, probably the coldest we've had since buying this vehicle so Im hoping that is what is affecting it and the glow plugs are the problem.

Am i correct in saying the glow plugs will only affect the running of the vehicle on start up and until at temp? "Overlanding With Bruce" - Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@OverlandingwithBruce
11MY Defender 130
23MY Defender 110 D300 HSE X-Dynamic

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzrHKcjA-LJ470_H4QwPgVA
Post #913079 19th Jul 2021 2:26pm
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HardCharger



Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila, SFO, Amsterdam
Posts: 680
2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
No codes? Could be the VCV as when this goes kaputt or is acting up, there will be no codes thrown. If you're buying one, get another one for cheap insurance. These seem to go at random.
Post #913168 20th Jul 2021 7:10am
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BruceT



Member Since: 01 Nov 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 516
South Africa 
Thank you.

Are the symptoms of a bad VCV the same as what I am experiencing?

Maybe I should replace as a precaution anyway. "Overlanding With Bruce" - Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@OverlandingwithBruce
11MY Defender 130
23MY Defender 110 D300 HSE X-Dynamic

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzrHKcjA-LJ470_H4QwPgVA
Post #913179 20th Jul 2021 8:06am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16901
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
A faulty VCV can cause a huge range of symptoms all connected with fuelling issues, so rough idle, hard to start, stalling, misfire on acceleration, misfire on deceleration, just about anything you can think of. It can mimic just about every fault you used to get with points-based ignition systems and carburettors in the days of old. One characteristic of a VCV fault however is that it tends not give rise to a DTC (fault code) since it is a part of the fuel system which is not significantly monitored by the ECM, and as a result running irregularities combined with the absence of a fault code tends to indicate that the VCV may be the culprit.

The purpose of the VCV is to regulate the flow of fuel from the LP stage of the fuel pump to the HP stage, and by doing so regulate the fuel pressure in the common rail. Clearly if the VCV is misbehaving the fuel rail pressure may be too low, too high, or simply not react as fast as the engine needs it to. This can cause just about every possible fuel-related fault you can think of, and no two failures are quite the same. Sometimes you can get a clue from monitoring the common rail pressure in real-time, but this needs a diagnostic tool and isn't easy (there is no way to compare the commanded pressure with the actual pressure).

The fact that you are getting black smoke (excessive fuel being burned) rather than grey/white smoke (fuel not being completely burned) suggests to me that it isn't a heater plug issue, but rather that the engine is over-fuelling. This could certainly be the result of a VCV fault, and given that changing it is neither expensive nor difficult it is probably the first thing I would try.

Generally if a 2.4 TDCi isn't running right, there is nothing obviously wrong, and there are no DTCs, it is worth changing the VCV just to rule it out. If it makes no difference at least you then have a spare, which you will definitely need one day.
Post #913191 20th Jul 2021 9:46am
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BruceT



Member Since: 01 Nov 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 516
South Africa 
Thank you very much for the detailed reply Blackwolf. Really appreciate it.

Learnt something new in this thread. Thank you all for the replies. I will try the VCV first. "Overlanding With Bruce" - Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@OverlandingwithBruce
11MY Defender 130
23MY Defender 110 D300 HSE X-Dynamic

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzrHKcjA-LJ470_H4QwPgVA
Post #913225 20th Jul 2021 1:43pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 1788
United Kingdom 
Here is a little guide from bell auto services on vcv replacement https://bellautoservices.co.uk/store/defen...our-valve/

Many People on here that have replaced the vcv did not undertake a pump learn procedure or pilot correction procedure via a diagnostic tool. Instead starting the engine, letting it run at idle for 10 mins and then going for a 20 - 30 mile drive. They report all worked ok.

Just do a search on here on vcv and lots of info pops up.
Post #913236 20th Jul 2021 4:30pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3997
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
If you have access to a suitable diagnostic tool (e.g. Nanocom) you can have a look at fuel rail pressure in real time while the engine is running. If the VCV is goosed the rail pressure will be fluctuating all over the show. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #913262 20th Jul 2021 6:27pm
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BruceT



Member Since: 01 Nov 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 516
South Africa 
Thank you.

I have actually been thinking of getting one but am unsure which one to get. Any suggestions? "Overlanding With Bruce" - Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@OverlandingwithBruce
11MY Defender 130
23MY Defender 110 D300 HSE X-Dynamic

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzrHKcjA-LJ470_H4QwPgVA
Post #913332 21st Jul 2021 6:52am
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BruceT



Member Since: 01 Nov 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 516
South Africa 
I have been looking at purchasing the VCV but see there are several choices. From Britpart, Allmakes, Denso and Land Rover with a huge difference in pricing.

What are the reliable options to get? Britpart has got a bit of a bad reputation for subquality parts here but I am not sure that is accurate.

Which one should I get?

Thank you. "Overlanding With Bruce" - Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@OverlandingwithBruce
11MY Defender 130
23MY Defender 110 D300 HSE X-Dynamic

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzrHKcjA-LJ470_H4QwPgVA
Post #913524 22nd Jul 2021 7:02am
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HardCharger



Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila, SFO, Amsterdam
Posts: 680
2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
I always go for Denso units as the LR ones are highway robbery!

Britpart, nope.

Allmakes, I haven't tried.
Post #913682 23rd Jul 2021 3:25am
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BruceT



Member Since: 01 Nov 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 516
South Africa 
Thank you all for the replies. I purchased a Denso one this morning. With our weak currency its a bit expensive, so hopefully it sorts out the issue. I did sound like I knew what I was doing when I walked into the spares shop and said I want a VCV for a puma Laughing

Next up is possibly a nanocom and a better remap. (Considering Bas and Alive.)

Will feed back to the forum if the VCV sorts out the issue.


Thanks again all. "Overlanding With Bruce" - Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@OverlandingwithBruce
11MY Defender 130
23MY Defender 110 D300 HSE X-Dynamic

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzrHKcjA-LJ470_H4QwPgVA
Post #913694 23rd Jul 2021 7:57am
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