 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > Now we know why Land Rover says it’s a 4x4 and not an SUV |
 
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3751  
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City drivers 'should think twice' before buying SUVs https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56647128 Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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7th Apr 2021 11:11am |
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| deaston Member Since: 18 Dec 2020 Location: UK Posts: 150 
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Do LR actually say that? I agree - it's a 4x4 but SUV seems to have become so common these days.
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7th Apr 2021 12:00pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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Technically, it's not anymore... AWD, intelligent or otherwise.
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7th Apr 2021 1:01pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Technically? Is a new Wrangler a 4x4, or “AWD”?
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8th Apr 2021 3:58pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Depends how you drive an “Intelligent All-Wheel Drive” Defender, too.
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8th Apr 2021 4:45pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16894 
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The term "4x4" simply means the vehicle has four wheels all of which are capable of being driven, not necessailry all the time. A Series Land-Rover is a 4x4, even though it is part time.
"AWD" simply means "All Wheel Drive", i.e., all the wheel of the vehicle are capable of being driven, again not necessarily all the time. Ergo all 4x4 vehicles are AWD, but not all AWD vehicles are 4x4 - a 6x6 vehicle is AWD. As far as I know all new Defenders irrespective of their transmission are both 4x4 and AWD, since they all have full- or part-time four wheel drive, and all have four wheels. Not all Old defenders and Series vehicles are, however, since there were oddballs such as the RAF 4x2 vehicles, there were "Eezion" 4x2 vehicles, there have been many 6x4 vehicles, and a few 6x6 vehicles. "SUV" is a meaningless term invented by people who attempt to match vehicles to lifestyles with a view to making sales. I don't think that an SUV has to have 4WD or even be remotely off-road capable. |
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8th Apr 2021 6:06pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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There seems to be an assumption that the 6 cyl diesel driveline is somehow less manly because it has the ability to disconnect drive from the front axle (and shuffle torque as it sees fit).
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8th Apr 2021 6:24pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Just merge the thread with this earlier one if you want to discuss the merits and demerits of either system; but fundamentally ask yourself whether this change to the driveline was to make the vehicle more of a halo off road product, to make it handle better on the road, or to offset increased CO2 emissions with the introduction of the I6 engine.
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic75540...p;start=15 There might be a clue in what JLR, itself, says about both systems: "it’s important to highlight that AWD is not a term that’s fully interchangeable with four-wheel drive (4WD). 4WD is typically reserved for very serious off-roaders, splits power evenly between all four wheels, and offers very low gear ratios that are driver-selectable. AWD is refined and sophisticated, actively shuffling power from front-to-rear in milliseconds, its adaptability better suited to the higher speeds road cars tackle."  Click image to enlarge https://www.jaguar-me.com/en/about-jaguar/...range.html And then we go from the theoretical benefits of swapping drive from back to front in milliseconds to what happens in practice: SSM 75152 Click image to enlarge I'm fairly certain there's a mechanical engineer at JLR who turned up for work on 9th Dec with a smile on his face and a lapel badge with the words "I told you so". It's not about manly things, it's about being fit for purpose and not doing things for the wrong reasons ~ in this case chasing CO2 and because a software engineer can write code faster than a mechanical engineer can explain about mechanical sympathy and excess duty on clutches. |
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8th Apr 2021 7:10pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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You should offer your services to JLR, let them know what they’re doing wrong. Presumably you’ll also negotiate them an exemption to the fleet CO2 targets, too.
PS That Auto Terrain Response bulletin relates only to vehicles with a full-time 50/50 torque split transfer box, so it’s absolutely nothing to do with “swapping drive from back to front”. |
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8th Apr 2021 7:17pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Well if I was, I would start at Bowler and tell them never to try and make the Bulldog chassis out of aluminium no matter what some might say...
Fleet CO2 targets are there, all manufacturers have to deal with it, some are more inventive than others. Pointing out that the introduction of AWD has more to do with EGR, DPF, Adblue, etc than improving the off road ability of a halo model shouldn't cause any personal offense, just shrug and accept it for what it is, unless you now disagree:
Not sure "shooting the messenger" moves the conversation on? |
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8th Apr 2021 8:23pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Point is there is no off-road downside to it, given the situations and circumstances when it runs in 2WD. Fleet emissions regs clearly have a bigger impact on a firm with a model range like JLRs.
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8th Apr 2021 8:44pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Again lifted in it's entirety from the earlier thread:
Curiously similar. "multiple Bronco Sports have overheated after a few minutes of tackling a small hill or hooning around in the sand. In every case, the compact crossover flashed the 4WD Temporarily Disabled message before entering limp-home mode. The Power Transfer Unit, also known as the twin-clutch rear differential that enables AWD whenever needed, is the subassembly that overheated in both scenarios. What comes as a bit of a surprise is that Ford offers a PTU cooler in the Bronco Sport Badlands, liquid cooling that isn’t up to the task of keeping the power transfer unit within the recommended temperature range. Ford Bronco Sport " https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2021-fo...57682.html Click image to enlarge Excellent article on some of the issues these AWD systems with clutches have to manage: https://jalopnik.com/multiple-ford-bronco-...1846450499 As to JLR's Fleet emissions ~ if the I Pace had sold in larger numbers, or the MLA platform have been introduced for MY20 as they had said they would then maybe they wouldn't have had to make this compromise. |
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9th Apr 2021 7:58am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Systems are completely different. Multi-plate clutches have been common in LR centre diff transfer cases for a long time.
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9th Apr 2021 10:04am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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As has the litany of SSMs.
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9th Apr 2021 5:23pm |
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