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jnglmstr



Member Since: 03 Aug 2015
Location: Dorking - Surrey
Posts: 14

United Kingdom 1996 Defender 110 300 Tdi SW Coniston Green
'96 110 Steering not returning to center after wheel change
Hi all,

bit of a strange one: I recently swapped my standard steel 7.5x16 wheels with brand new 235x16 tyres on brand new boost alloys. Both came as factory options on a 110 once and both sizes are close (enough) to identical. So one wouldn't expect a difference in road behaviour. WRONG.

On the return drive from the tyre fitter, I immediately found the car way more wavy/swaying. After doing a few miles in
it, it turns out the wheels will not return to centre on their own. So if I steer by e.g. 15 degrees and let go of the wheel, off I go into an eternal circle. To me it doesn't make sense, but steering isn't my speciality.

A few months ago, I did remove a fair amount of slack from the power steering. That improved the (then) drive with the steel wheels dramatically. Could this be related?

Where to start troubleshooting?

Cheers,
R.


Last edited by jnglmstr on 18th Mar 2021 5:00pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #892392 18th Mar 2021 4:52pm
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jaygti



Member Since: 04 Nov 2012
Location: essex
Posts: 375

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Epsom Green
I don’t know, but I’d check the wheel nuts first👍🏻 2002 td5 90 county hardtop
Post #892393 18th Mar 2021 4:55pm
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jnglmstr



Member Since: 03 Aug 2015
Location: Dorking - Surrey
Posts: 14

United Kingdom 1996 Defender 110 300 Tdi SW Coniston Green
lol, I appreciate you're worried about my (or my defender's) general wellbeing but I stood next to the guy torqueing them up. Now I will be a good man and check them as it doesn't hurt anyone, but I'm not convinced this is causing the issue.

Thumbs Up
Post #892396 18th Mar 2021 5:02pm
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Mdm



Member Since: 11 Sep 2013
Location: Sunny Lancashire
Posts: 1508

United Kingdom 
you don't say what type of tyre you had on or have replaced them with

or the full size but im assuming a 235 85 16?

or what pressure is in them?

assuming you bought new alloy wheel nuts as well?

i would expect a difference in ride and handling with new wheels.

how did you take the slack out of the power steering system? and what did you try to cure by doing so?
Post #892403 18th Mar 2021 5:31pm
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jnglmstr



Member Since: 03 Aug 2015
Location: Dorking - Surrey
Posts: 14

United Kingdom 1996 Defender 110 300 Tdi SW Coniston Green
>>you don't say what type of tyre you had on or have replaced them with

Michelin Latitude Cross (old and new, I rate them highly)

>>or the full size but im assuming a 235 85 16?

Correct

or what pressure is in them?

38psi all around
>>assuming you bought new alloy wheel nuts as well?

For sure, 20 of them.

>>i would expect a difference in ride and handling with new wheels.
>>how did you take the slack out of the power steering system? and what did you try to cure by doing so?

Previously I had -15 to +15 degrees free play in the steering wheel which made the drive a bit unresponsive. I fixed that by taking out slack in the steering box (lock nut/hex bolt jobbie) and back then it felt like an amazing fix for what felt like the 'sitting on the back of a camel' ride.
Post #892435 18th Mar 2021 7:10pm
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davidblythe



Member Since: 27 Apr 2019
Location: Cheam, Surrey
Posts: 110

England 
30 degrees movement in total out of 360 degrees, equivalent to movement between 12 oclock and 1 oclock on a watch, can only dream of that on my 90 and 110

think your steering box is over tightened for the new setup, why i dont know

have experienced something similar when i changed all the ball joints and steering rack 1999 90 TD5 CSW
2006 110 TD5 HD Commercial
Post #892439 18th Mar 2021 7:27pm
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jnglmstr



Member Since: 03 Aug 2015
Location: Dorking - Surrey
Posts: 14

United Kingdom 1996 Defender 110 300 Tdi SW Coniston Green
I'm not sure you're getting my point. Even with a -1/+1 adjustment of the steering wheel, the thing will not centre. It's highly annoying. I used to have (what I believe) is your situation: tons of free play 'in the middle'.
Post #892444 18th Mar 2021 7:42pm
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donmacn



Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1829

is the wheel offset different.... i.e. do the wheels sit further out of the wheel arches?

My logic in asking is that if they are further out, they'd be exerting more leverage on the box, therefore the box might not have the oomph to centre them? (sorry, edit, that's a bit carp. it's not the box that centres)

I also wondered about the swivel pre-tension, and maybe that would be affected the same way by wheels set further out from the hub.

Many moons ago I went from 7.5/16s on steels to 265/75/16 on alloys, with no real difference at all apart from having to adjust the steering lock, and a smidge more tramlining from the wider tyres.

2nd edit - 38psi all round? Is that what the original wheels/tyres had? I think that LR specify someing like 28/30 on the front. Why that would cause a problem self-centering, I can't think. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...
Post #892445 18th Mar 2021 7:42pm
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Mdm



Member Since: 11 Sep 2013
Location: Sunny Lancashire
Posts: 1508

United Kingdom 
ok not sure on what load you are running but 38 psi all round is rather high unless fully loaded.28-32 is more common and what the army run there's at up front and they set them for full load work.bit again as long as pressures are the same it wont cause your issue.

removing the steering damper is an easy thing to test as well.

i suspect your adjustment of the box maybe the root cause assuming all other bits on the underside are ok and nothing is bent or worn out.

i suspect a workshop visit is the next step or refitting your old rims to see what that does
Post #892449 18th Mar 2021 8:03pm
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jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7664

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
when you say removed slack in the box, how much did you turn the screw? 1/8th is a great deal more pressure on the box.

a 7.50 is no where near a 235 for profile contact for any same rim and tyre. i would suggest extra contact pad and too tight a box is reducing the return to centre.

is it lifted? Cheers

James
110 XS Utility
130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making)
90 Puma Hardtop
Post #892473 18th Mar 2021 9:10pm
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cradgebank



Member Since: 30 Dec 2008
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 306

England 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
I think changing the wheels is more coincidental than the cause of the problem.

Check the two UJ's on the steering column collapsible shaft, they can seize and that can give the symptoms you are experiencing.

I recently had an issue where the steering was very ''heavy'' and that was a seized bearing in the steering column. Richard

Either a 90, 110 or 130.
Discovery 5
Post #892512 19th Mar 2021 7:35am
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Lodelaner



Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Lambourn
Posts: 621

United Kingdom 1988 Defender 90 V8 Petrol ST Shire Blue
I’d also check the toe out - 1.2-2.4mm ( if I recall correctly? ) JB

@Lodelaner Instagram

Youtube greenlaning and other LR related content
Post #892611 19th Mar 2021 4:39pm
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ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1726

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
IIRC you remove the 'slack' in the box on full lock, so that the box doesn't bind away from the most worn section, if that makes sense!
Post #892624 19th Mar 2021 5:37pm
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