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Samblers

Member Since: 29 Jan 2014
Location: Perth, innit
Posts: 63

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Fuji White

2010 Puma w/ABS brake pedal just keeps sinking...

Hi from down under! Posted this one of my local forum but now casting the net wider...

I'm interested in advice/ explanations for the following brake pedal behaviour on my ABS-equipped 2010 Puma 110. I only noticed it because I had replaced the parts listed below, and was paying the system some attention... it might have been like this for years:

- disks, pads all round - OEM items
- all hub seals replaced, bearings greased, new locknuts correctly torqued
- new fluid, bled several times
- i did the bleeding the old fashioned way - glass jar, tube and a chum

Stage 1: Engine OFF: brake pedal firms up nicely, first press, 1/3 way down. zero air in system i'd say
Stage 2: Engine ON: pedal slowly sinks to floor. pedal will keep doing this again and again without ever becoming firm
Stage 3: Driving: brakes operate well, ABS unit works (tested on loose ground), but pedal will always slowly dip to floor under moderate foot pressure

Is this normal? What causes it? Where is the fluid being pumped to?

Several sources/ posts report that at Stage 2 you would expect pedal to fall another 1/3 or so... but not sure about all the way to the floor.

Also many (my dad included) were convinced that the master cylinder is internally bypassing, and this pedal behaviour isnever normal:

- I replaced m/c with new OEM item ($$$$)
- fluid, bleed, etc
- no change
- i then checked a friends 2014 110 ABS equipped Puma, and his does it too

Does yours?

Cheers for advice, Sam

11th Mar 2021 2:11pm

Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 723

No that is not normal Samblers - you should not be able to press the brake pedal all the way to the floor with the engine running.

I would suggest that you do have air in the system. When the engine is off, you will not have the vacuum assist which the engine is providing, meaning you would have to press the brake pedal a lot harder for the same braking force.

When you are bleeding the system, can you confirm the method you are using? It sounds like you are not using the electronic "get the ABS unit to bleed each corner" approach. I don't know how successful a manual bleed is on an ABS equipped vehicle is. 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

11th Mar 2021 3:54pm

Sicastle71

Member Since: 21 Aug 2019
Location: West Lancs
Posts: 126

Had exactly same when replacing callipers on td5 with abs bleed fine with pressure bleeder at callipers but no firm pedal with engine running so re bled using the abs calliper bleed and power bleed and was fine after sometimes air can get trapped in the abs

11th Mar 2021 8:00pm

Samblers

Member Since: 29 Jan 2014
Location: Perth, innit
Posts: 63

Thanks guys,

Yes i'm starting to suspect the ABS module has air in it. I would add that when i did discs/pads i lost all the fluid because I undid the brake line union on the first wheel to gain access (rookie error). I bled using the old-fashioned method.

I also just found the trailfitter video about brake bleeding process here: - which is for ABS defenders, and involves bleeding the ABS module using an interface (which I dont have)

So, presume I should just take the car to a LR mechanic and get them to perform the ABS module bleed?

Cheers, Sam

12th Mar 2021 12:32am

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