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Dexterdog



Member Since: 23 Jun 2018
Location: gloucestershire
Posts: 99

Surging and hesitations

Hoping for some help please from you clever folk out there.

I have a 2001 TD5 which has a problem that I cannot get to the bottom of:

When the engine is cold it hesitates and surges, especially when driving gently. Kangarooing probably best sums it up. The problem happens less and less as the engine progressively warms up and once up to running temp it seems not to do it at at all. Certainly once its warm if you drive it quite hard you dont feel it at all.

Drive it hard and it happens less, almost as if it "clears" itself. But until it has warmed up as soon as you go back to more gently pressing the accelerator it returns.

Low ratio seems worse but I guess that is just the problem being amplified by the low ratio settings.

So far to try and sort it have done the following with no success:

It has just been remapped which has not cleared it.
Injector harness has been changed. It did have oil in red plug but not in ECU. That is all clean now.
Has had new fuel filter and is running on shell v power diesel
Wastegate did seem stuck but has been freed up
MAF sensor disconnected (problem still present to reconnected)
New air filter

Any ideas where to look next please ?

Thanks in advance

Post #814191 8th Feb 2020 4:38pm
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bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 1735

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green

Had it on diagnostics? Instagram @defender_ventures
Empire Tuning - Agent

Post #814193 8th Feb 2020 4:44pm
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Dexterdog



Member Since: 23 Jun 2018
Location: gloucestershire
Posts: 99

No, not yet. When they remapped it there were no fault codes present.

Sorry for my ignorance, would diagnostics have to be ran when its cold as thats when the problem is most present ?

Post #814195 8th Feb 2020 4:55pm
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diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 5077

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green

Water temp sender?

Post #814197 8th Feb 2020 5:03pm
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benniferj



Member Since: 20 Oct 2016
Location: Basingstoke
Posts: 355

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Oslo Blue

Who remapped it?
How can they have remapped it if the engine wasn't running properly in the first place. I would question the professionalism of whoever did that.

And maybe slightly more productively - when you first turn they key but before starting, I take it you hear the fuel pump at the back of the car run and whir. Do you hear any odd sucking noises and under the bonnet do you hear the fuel pressure regulator (near the coolant bottle) make any odd noises?

What kind of condition is the fuel filter housing in under the back right wheel arch? Any signs of weeping? You say the filter was done recently, did you do it yourself, can you confirm it's properly sealed on? Did the problem exist before changing the fuel filter?

I am suggesting air leak/weeping fuel system.

Post #814464 10th Feb 2020 11:24am
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Dexterdog



Member Since: 23 Jun 2018
Location: gloucestershire
Posts: 99

Hi,

I guess the remap was fine because the engine was warm when they did it ?

Fuel pump noise normal when starting.

Fuel filter assembly has no sign of leaks - I changed it myself. Problem was there before and after fuel filter change

I will have a listen to the fuel pressure regulator to see if it makes any noises.

Is that something that would effect the engine only when cold ?

Post #814517 10th Feb 2020 6:23pm
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jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 6539

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

Does it idle smoothly on start up?

Is it engine temp related or engine run time related.

If its left for 2hrs does it do it left 6hrs does it do it? Cheers

James
110 XS Utility
130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making)
90 Puma Hardtop

Post #814528 10th Feb 2020 8:10pm
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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 4586

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue

Injector seals? 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock

Post #814529 10th Feb 2020 8:10pm
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jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 6539

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

Sorry forgot to add, is that age not in the fuel filter housing cracking range? Cheers

James
110 XS Utility
130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making)
90 Puma Hardtop

Post #814530 10th Feb 2020 8:10pm
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diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 5077

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green

try swapping in a spare ECU and see if it's software (or ECU hardware) causing it.

Post #814533 10th Feb 2020 8:19pm
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Dexterdog



Member Since: 23 Jun 2018
Location: gloucestershire
Posts: 99

Hi,

When you start it it ticks over really smooth, no lumps or bumps or hunting through rev range. Its only when you drive it you get the flats spots and hesitation which then clears if you push it harder until its warmed up.

I hadnt actually paid much attention to whether it makes a difference if engine running time is what makes a difference or if engine temp makes a difference. Tomorrow I'll leave it to tick over for 5 mins then drive it and see if it makes any difference and will report back.

Would the injector seals or fuel filter housing cracking make any difference between the engine just started and once its warm (sorry for ignorance). Its definitely much much better (hardly ever notice anything after a couple of miles)

Thanks for giving it some thought for me

Post #814548 10th Feb 2020 10:39pm
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Enid_Puceflange



Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: edinburgh
Posts: 1115

Scotland 2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Baltic Blue

Watching this
I too have the same issue on a late 2001 TD5 (p15?? I think the engine is)
Serviced recently
Injector loom replaced
Run injector cleaner last couple of tanks of derv, made it slightly less frequent
Certainly didn’t cure things My confidence has been writing cheques that my abilities can't cash for years.

Post #814562 11th Feb 2020 12:51am
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landy andy



Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 4238

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver

I would stick a new MAF sensor on if it were mine.

Try running yours with it’s MAF disconnected and see if it improves things.

Post #814567 11th Feb 2020 8:54am
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Dexterdog



Member Since: 23 Jun 2018
Location: gloucestershire
Posts: 99

Quick update.

MAF sensor has been disconnected to see if that makes any difference and its still the same.

In answer to the question is it the length of time the engine runs for that solves it or engine temp........

I let it tick over for 10 mins today before driving it. Temp gauge in the blue after 10 mins as had just been ticking over. Drove it and still have the same problem. So the issue goes away when the engine gets up to full running temp and is not dependent on length of time engine has been running (if just ticking over).

Started it again after 3 hours and it was present less but still noticeable when first driving it.

All seems to suggest the engine temperature being at full running temperature is what makes it go away.

Also listened for sucking / slurping / unusual noises around fuel pump and around engine bay around fuel regulator and there are none I can hear.

Any other ideas please? What might make it hesitate when the engine is cold. It definitely reduces the hotter the engine gets until is virtually unnoticeable when temp gauge in middle at full running temp. If you drive it hard when cold it will "clear" but as you lift off and drive gently again it hesitates until you give it more throttle again and so you get hesitation / surging which reduces as you get nearer to full running temperature.

Post #814627 11th Feb 2020 4:55pm
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Dexterdog



Member Since: 23 Jun 2018
Location: gloucestershire
Posts: 99

Hi Chaps,

2001 TD5 defender

Things have moved on a bit but still have the problem. Update is

Car started missing and hesitating only when engine temp cold. Once got up to temp ran fine.
Now its missing and hesitating more significantly. Sometimes kangarooing.
Now does it not only when engine cold but definitely does it more when it is cold . It does not do this all the time. Does it intermittently and only under light acceleration. Drive it like you stole it and it goes like stink and is really sweet. Will sometimes run perfectly for a few miles but then starts playing up again.
The key issues is its only when accelerating lightly that you can have the problem

Actions so far:
Had oil at red plug (not loads by some pics I have seen) but not in ecu. Changed injector harness. Cleaned plug
MAF changed
Wastgate is moving OK
EGR blanked
ECU checked and is OK
Has stage 2 Alive remap - mapping checked by Alive (at same time as ECU) and is OK


Garage said I have unrelated fault codes that wont clear (air con for example even though dont have air con) and suggests this means either ECU (been checked) or oil in engine loom.

So the question for all you wise chaps is does that sound correct ?

When it does it (not always), once you go past the light acceleration hesitating and drive it hard then it clears and goes really well (but starts again when you lift off). That to me seems like you are "passing" the problem which in my mind does not seem to correlate with signal interruption by oil in the loom. Otherwise would it not do it all the time under any level of acceleration?

Any helps please

Post #820289 19th Mar 2020 10:50pm
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