 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > ATB for LT230 |
 
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| BogMonster Member Since: 05 Feb 2008 Location: Stanley Posts: 389   
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I have recently put Ashcroft ATB diffs in the front and rear of my 300Tdi, so far so good, I like them.
I've read on one of the forums recently that the centre diff ATB for the LT230 can remove a lot of transmission backlash, but I can't now find it. I am not sure if it was on here or not. I'm now pondering that option for my Puma, if it is likely to make a real difference. Can anybody who has fitted one comment on this aspect - did it make any difference to the overall transmission backlash in yours? Also, a related question, I am sure I have also seen somewhere that all Puma vehicles had the stronger four-pin front diff fitted. Can anybody confirm or dispel that please? --- 2006 Defender 110 SW 300Tdi • 2011 Ford Ranger XLT crewcab • 2015 Defender 110 Station Wagon Utility TDCi |
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19th Oct 2019 12:26am |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3612  
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https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic68115...centre+atb
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic67749...centre+atb Try search loads of threads contain this Caterham was certainly one who extols the virtues of the Centre ATB DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS, I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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19th Oct 2019 6:17am |
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| Mike_E Member Since: 13 Apr 2017 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 160 
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I just fitted one to a 2015 puma but also did the clutch at the same time.
To be honest the backlash is less than it was ( the 2015/16s have a 2 pin centre diff too rather than the 4 pin used for all lt230s previously) but not totally eliminated. The clutch made a bigger improvement for clunking as the springs soften the take up of any backlash. I fitted an updated clutchfix clutch and found some negatives too... the drive is not as smooth as before, there is more NVH from the engine transferred to the driveline but that is compared to a soft knackered standard friction plate. Mike |
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19th Oct 2019 10:40am |
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| BogMonster Member Since: 05 Feb 2008 Location: Stanley Posts: 389
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OK, thanks, peering in the 'ole seems the only way to be sure about the front 4 pin then.
I have no issues with backlash on my 300Tdi, it has 'the usual' but not excessive and easy to drive around. I've owned the 300 since new, so although worked hard at times it has never had slam-bang gearchanges, The Puma is just cranky with gearchanges, I have driven quite a few of all types in my old job, and to be honest with about one or two exceptions the Puma vehicles have all been grumpy particularly the 2-3 shift when hot, which is where mine is poor. Just occasionally you find one that is really good but almost all Puma vehicles I've driven have a slight clack-crunch going into 3rd, particularly after they have a few miles on them. I have always believed (since way before the Puma came out) that the differences between individual vehicles are largely down to whether you get a good or bad transfer box, though I am not sure exactly where the assembly tolerances creep in within the box - have assumed centre diff is most likely. I presume it's the difference between a box that is mostly built at the tight end of the scale where there are things that get shimmed up, and a box that is mostly built at the Friday afternoon end of the scale. Having read recently that the ATB seemed to be something that might take out a lot of play, I wondered if it was worth a try, as their stuff is likely to be built properly. My vehicle has had a Clutchfix clutch and the Ashcroft rear shaft fitted, and the front and rear axles are both fine for backlash at the pinion, so it's about the only thing left where there could be excess play downstream of the MT82. That's what I'm trying to find and remove. Most people wouldn't bother about it, but I'm fussy........... 
I didn't particularly want or need an ATB in the middle for any other reason ... until I saw the 'revelation' about late Puma centre diffs in the other post LR90 linked to above. It might explain a few things if that's what mine has  ---
2006 Defender 110 SW 300Tdi • 2011 Ford Ranger XLT crewcab • 2015 Defender 110 Station Wagon Utility TDCi |
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19th Oct 2019 10:56am |
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| Bluericky Member Since: 26 Jun 2014 Location: Cornwall Posts: 647 
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I fitted an ATB to by transfer box a couple of months ago , it really did make a vast difference to the backlash but then you could argue that my original box was fairly worn .
Having said that the difference on the road is noticeable and it handles far better coming out of a corner . On the farm the benefits are clear to see and when I would have had the diff lock engaged I now don’t have to (although I’d recommend having it locked anyway) . Frankly It’s an expensive option as unless you’re sure that your centre diff is worn it may not be worth it , particularly as you already have a front and rear installed . I’m glad I went ahead with it https://www.instagram.com/hustynminepark/ |
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19th Oct 2019 11:21am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16856 
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Curious. I have never (yet) met a Puma with a bad gear change and the worst Puma had been better than the best R380 I've met! Although there are many driveline issues with the Puma, the MT82 seems to be about the best bit. It's actually quite difficult to assess accurately the centre diff backlash without dismantling the box, and a lot of the lash blamed on the diff is usually elsewhere. |
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19th Oct 2019 2:46pm |
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| BogMonster Member Since: 05 Feb 2008 Location: Stanley Posts: 389
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Interesting - maybe they send all the bad ones overseas! I dug the 300 out for a trip off road over the weekend and commented to the wife how nice it was to be back in something that has a gearchange that didn't crunch - the R380 in mine is just nicely run in at 35,000 miles.
On the Puma: 1-2 is usually not too bad, generally a bit stiff on the first few changes when cold. If it's grumpy I just don't use 1st! 2-3 is the one that drives me round the twist - almost always get a clack-crunch on an upchange, fast, slow, hot, cold (but always a lot worse when hot). 3-4 perfect 4-5 perfect Rarely use 6th due to road speeds here but 5-6 is fine too. Most of those I've driven I recall as being the same - always 3rd being the worst. I bought mine with 4000 miles on it from somebody I know looked after it like a baby, but I drove plenty of new ones back in my last job and most of them had the same irritation with 3rd. My theory is that it's largely due to transmission backlash downstream of the gearbox. Many years ago I had a V8 Discovery that developed the most awful syncro crash on gearchanges. One thing and another led me to get the garage to take out the front diff, and I found the pin was broken and it was developing loads of backlash and heading for failure. Once that was changed the gearshift was perfect again. I always reckoned that there was a 'bounce' as the load came off the driveline that travelled down through the driveline and back up again, and upset the syncros in the gearbox. I've always wondered what would happen if you built one from scratch with high-grade components (Ashcroft CVs etc) and built everything up (i.e. the diffs and t/box) at the absolute tight end of the allowable tolerances. Filling the diffs up with EP140 is the other option  ---
2006 Defender 110 SW 300Tdi • 2011 Ford Ranger XLT crewcab • 2015 Defender 110 Station Wagon Utility TDCi |
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29th Oct 2019 10:49am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16856
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I completely agree with you that backlash downstream of the 'box will make a massive difference to driveability. If the Defender driveline concept has a weakness, it is that there are so many wear points in the system as a whole (and I am pretty sure that this is why (a) very few manufacturers have ever offered full-time AWD systems of this type, and (b) most AWD systems now use Haldex type devices.
it is exacerbated on the TDCi by the massive amounts of torque available at very low engine speeds, and the amount of torsional vibration at those speeds. This really does seem to hammer all the driveline components, resulting in lash, and lash always causes more lash. I have often felt that the TDCi would have been more satisfactory with an auto box, since deleting the clutch would avoid a great many of these problems. Sadly I think that the TDCi came too late in the lifecycle of the vehicle for JLR ever to care about getting it just right. |
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29th Oct 2019 3:24pm |
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| CharlieDonuts Member Since: 16 Jun 2019 Location: Illiers Combray Posts: 133  
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I fitted an ATB ASHCROFT transfer box last week. At 100,000 miles the old transfer box had started to leak oil. Seeing as it was going to have to be fixed or replaced anyway I opted for the ASHCROFT unit with sleeve casing and the ATB option.
Prior to fitting my third gear was a bit 'notchy' and I would occasionally get a thud at the clutch if I tried to change up too fast. That has now completely gone. I still have to change gear somewhat ponderously but it feels more sure and less clunky and notchy than before. Its not a miraculous change but then it wasn't so bad in the first place. Off road I use diff lock but I am drive mostly on country roads that are icy, snowy or muddy for most parts of the year so having the coupling between axles is definitely appreciated. The only downside other than the cost is that whines a bit more loudly than the old unit. My 2 cents for what its worth |
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7th Dec 2019 4:03pm |
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| CharlieDonuts Member Since: 16 Jun 2019 Location: Illiers Combray Posts: 133
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Actually I have a problem. My diff lock is now difficult to engage. It takes a few goes to get the lamp to light and then when I am going along the lamp is going off by itself without me disengaging. So then I have to stop and fiddle about until it’s lit again. This just on a farm track no significant loss of grip. i went to see my mechanic today and he said mechanically it’s all fine that I need to ask Ashcroft how it’s supposed to function ATB + diff lock.
I am not fluent in French so I miss about 50% of what the mechanic is telling me. 30% lost in translation and 20% I don’t really understand how the diff lock system actually works. |
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10th Dec 2019 5:25pm |
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| Mo Murphy Member Since: 01 Jun 2008 Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts Posts: 2076 
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Sounds like the lever linkage needs adjusting.
Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen. |
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10th Dec 2019 8:11pm |
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| CharlieDonuts Member Since: 16 Jun 2019 Location: Illiers Combray Posts: 133
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OK 👍 I will have a look in the manual and on-line to see how to do this
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11th Dec 2019 9:54am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16856
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It may even be simply that the light switch need adjusting on the transfer box.
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11th Dec 2019 2:23pm |
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| CharlieDonuts Member Since: 16 Jun 2019 Location: Illiers Combray Posts: 133
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Now I have no light at all although it feels though as if the lever is engaging. So I think you maybe right Mr Wolf. I presume that there is a connector somewhere on top of the box that needs to be checked. I am off to London tomorrow, national strike permitting, I’ll take a look when I get back.
Thanks guys you really are the best ! |
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11th Dec 2019 5:28pm |
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