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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 5996

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

gizze wrote:

European sales figures for the Defender over the last 5 years...

2017 7
2016 182
2015 1.237
2014 1.147
2013 810
2012 971


Yet another source puts actual world sales at:

Click image to enlarge

Post #793501 17th Sep 2019 9:08am
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gizze



Member Since: 14 Mar 2019
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 

Exactly, it was selling what at the end worldwide? 17,000 units.

Compare that with say the Discovery Sport, that sold 127,000 units last year.

It was a very niche market that appealed more to us as an old, used vehicle than it ever did as a new purchase.

Not saying I'm not disappointed, but I'm also not surprised either as I would never have bought one new, not to use it properly anyway.

I go into London from Norfolk a lot through work, Bond Street, Kings Road etc. etc.
I see far more 'new' Defenders in Kennsington and Chelsea than I ever see in Norfolk.
And that sort of sums up where the buyers were coming from I'm afraid.

Post #793640 17th Sep 2019 6:31pm
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Fat Cog



Member Since: 19 Mar 2012
Location: North Oxfordshire
Posts: 266

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey
Re: HERE IT IS!!!! 2020 LAND ROVER DEFENDER!

AdrianCR wrote:
https://youtu.be/rgSxmyOnJjg


I can't even change the radio station on my wife's Nissan Juke without nearly having a head on collision so I've absolutely no chance of mastering all those new widgets, gadgets, dials & knobs... Since 1973...S1, Air Portables, Defenders & finally 2016 90 XS HT & 90 Wolf

Post #793647 17th Sep 2019 7:10pm
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 1919

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

JLR intentionally let the Defender die by not updating it or meeting global standards. I'm surprised it actually sold that many in the last 5-10 years of production.

Post #793650 17th Sep 2019 7:17pm
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pcoote



Member Since: 01 Aug 2010
Location: Oxford
Posts: 77

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

Supacat wrote:
gizze wrote:

European sales figures for the Defender over the last 5 years...

2017 7
2016 182
2015 1.237
2014 1.147
2013 810
2012 971


Yet another source puts actual world sales at:

Click image to enlarge


The sales figures do not tell the full story. As I ordered a new 110 in 2012 and the delivery wait was 5 months ! Landrover were just not building them fast enough and so was throttling demand for them.

Post #793725 18th Sep 2019 6:15am
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AMBxx



Member Since: 24 Jul 2016
Location: York
Posts: 496

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey
Re: HERE IT IS!!!! 2020 LAND ROVER DEFENDER!

Fat Cog wrote:
AdrianCR wrote:
https://youtu.be/rgSxmyOnJjg


I can't even change the radio station on my wife's Nissan Juke without nearly having a head on collision so I've absolutely no chance of mastering all those new widgets, gadgets, dials & knobs...


The internal layout of most modern cars is terrible. My wife's previous cars were a Mercedes A Class and a Volvo C30. I couldn't use the fog lights in either without moving my head to look around the steering wheel.

Post #793737 18th Sep 2019 8:23am
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Mike c



Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Maldon, Essex
Posts: 424

2004 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Belize Green

It's ironic, they shove loads of safety into modern cars, but make them more dangerous in other ways, as mentioned above. I will also say that they seem to be full of blind spots, and the indicators are poorly placed making them invisible, many manufacturers are guilty of this!

Post #793738 18th Sep 2019 8:28am
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nosnibod



Member Since: 15 Aug 2007
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 317

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Corris Grey

And touch screens. Can’t stand the things in cars. Dave
Gracie - 2015 110 XS County Station Wagon

Post #793741 18th Sep 2019 8:42am
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90 Dreamer



Member Since: 13 Jul 2019
Location: Oop North
Posts: 396

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey

touch screens that now seem bigger than a portable telly....................

had a new Transit on hire recently and took up the dash!!

Post #793747 18th Sep 2019 8:48am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 5996

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

gizze wrote:
Compare that with say the Discovery Sport, that sold 127,000 units last year.


What time period is that "year"?

For FY18/19 JLR only had retail sales of 87,977 (taken from their Annual Report)

20k sales per annum for a single model should be seen as a reasonable volume to allow a reasonable profit, further investment in R&D and depreciation, etc; however, just maybe not in a company looking for 1m sales across 16 models. Although that is a moot point also.

Consider the 16 model lineup talked about and the 1m volume target. If all models were to pull their weight equally that would be a volume of 62,500 each. If this target was set for the full JLR model line is the last financial year then the whole of the Jag lineup would be cut, along with the RR and Discovery.

Of course there's always going to be variation in sales between models. The volume of one model can help with the marginal costing on another. Put another way, the heavy hitters can saturate the market and cover all fixed costs and the niche models selling in far fewer numbers can come in and sweep up all the additional revenue from people not inclined to buy the mass market vehicles and actually be hugely profitable.

A couple of models selling 100k units and a couple selling 80k units per annum, means you can also knock out a couple of models only selling 20k units. The point here is that those buying the two models only selling 20k would have spent that money with a different manufacturer if you did not have such a niche model in your portfolio. They also have to be sufficiently different (at least on the outside) from your other models.

Lower the 1m target to where JLR is now, say around 600k and the figures means the niche models can even have sales targets of 12k per annum and have the same impact on the business.

Post #793748 18th Sep 2019 8:51am
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Mike c



Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Maldon, Essex
Posts: 424

2004 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Belize Green

Agreed on touchscreens, stupid and another potentially dangerous idea in a vehicle, they can also fail to work in cold weather completely or if any condensation has built up on the screen.

Post #793753 18th Sep 2019 9:24am
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nosnibod



Member Since: 15 Aug 2007
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 317

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Corris Grey

Or simply wearing gloves... Dave
Gracie - 2015 110 XS County Station Wagon

Post #793760 18th Sep 2019 10:37am
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 295

And touch screens are impossible to keep finger print free. I have to say though that having owned numerous RRS, FFRR and Evoques since 2003, all with touch screens, i’ve never had any problems with them other than keeping them clean. Biggest problem has been slooooooooow processing but that is because LR choose to use cheap, slow processors. Epsom Green Tdi300 County Hard Top converted into a Station Wagon
Departed - RRS2 HSE Dynamic replaced by Mini Countryman PHEV

Post #793761 18th Sep 2019 10:47am
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gizze



Member Since: 14 Mar 2019
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 

Supacat wrote:
gizze wrote:
Compare that with say the Discovery Sport, that sold 127,000 units last year.


What time period is that "year"?

For FY18/19 JLR only had retail sales of 87,977 (taken from their Annual Report)

20k sales per annum for a single model should be seen as a reasonable volume to allow a reasonable profit, further investment in R&D and depreciation, etc; however, just maybe not in a company looking for 1m sales across 16 models. Although that is a moot point also.

Consider the 16 model lineup talked about and the 1m volume target. If all models were to pull their weight equally that would be a volume of 62,500 each. If this target was set for the full JLR model line is the last financial year then the whole of the Jag lineup would be cut, along with the RR and Discovery.

Of course there's always going to be variation in sales between models. The volume of one model can help with the marginal costing on another. Put another way, the heavy hitters can saturate the market and cover all fixed costs and the niche models selling in far fewer numbers can come in and sweep up all the additional revenue from people not inclined to buy the mass market vehicles and actually be hugely profitable.

A couple of models selling 100k units and a couple selling 80k units per annum, means you can also knock out a couple of models only selling 20k units. The point here is that those buying the two models only selling 20k would have spent that money with a different manufacturer if you did not have such a niche model in your portfolio. They also have to be sufficiently different (at least on the outside) from your other models.

Lower the 1m target to where JLR is now, say around 600k and the figures means the niche models can even have sales targets of 12k per annum and have the same impact on the business.



Sorry, I could only find the figures for the year 2017/18, I presumed the year ending 19 figures hadn't been released yet.

I don't disagree with anything you say, but the reality is, LR have decided that, as far as they are concerned they will get better sales/profits going the direction they have chosen.

As I said, I think it is a shame, but nothing we can do about it.


Porsche only sell 35000 911's, although it is the worlds most profitable car, 47% margin.

A niche product can be very worth while.

Post #793780 18th Sep 2019 12:25pm
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defender9



Member Since: 12 Mar 2016
Location: Fylde Coast
Posts: 1164

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

Interesting about the Porsche build numbers. In the late 80’s Porsche were on the verge of going bankrupt, hand built 911’s were not making the company enough money. So what did they do, they looked at Japanese production methods and in the 90’s brought out the Boxster which effectively saved the company. However also they changed production methods for the 911 as well and although it was still a niche product still sells well today within the Porsche line up. Today’s 911 although bigger still retains that iconic shape. I can’t help feeling that JLR missed a trick with the new Defender, yes of course update it and the production methods but surely they could have kept more of the iconic shape, durability and dual purpose usefulness of the old Defender. 2015 Defender 90 SW / 1985 factory V8 Ninety
1953 80in ex Australia
1955 Series 1 now owned by my son

Post #793792 18th Sep 2019 1:26pm
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