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custom90steve



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West England
Posts: 17478

United Kingdom 
They're at it again.

Has anyone else seen the latest Green Lane Association post on Facebook? Rolling Eyes

It's regarding the Peak District.
Here, is a snapshot in case you don't use FB:


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge



Words fail me, really does you can form your own conclusions.

Reminds me, I keep saying it but must join GLASS.

I thought I would share, as I know there will be interest here and some may not be aware. 🇬🇧 Made In GB. 🇬🇧

It May Not Be Very Fast, Never Has Slow Looked More Bad As*.

Post #803106 21st Nov 2019 7:31pm
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 2143

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

I don't do facebook but I have read the article. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/n...arm-tracks

I don't understand why GLASS are asking people to complain to the newspaper?

The LDNPA took the decision to continue allowing recreational vehicles on its lanes. Residents, National Trust etc are upset and sent a letter but LDNPA stated the letter did not “raise anything new” and the heritage body’s report had been reviewed fully by the committee as part of its deliberations.


What am I missing? WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.

Post #803121 21st Nov 2019 8:38pm
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22900013A



Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 2635

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green

To let the newspaper know that many people stand opposed to their views.

It is obvious from the article which side of the fence they are on (no surprise at all from the guardian) and that various bodies and individuals intend to keep up the pressure to ban 4x4s simply on the grounds they don"t like them.

I did laugh at the bit saying campaigners "estimated" vehicles numbers had risen, but cited no research or evidence whatsoever. It was stated as though it were fact.

I'm pretty sure the red-socked luvvies behind much of the campaigning see off roading/green-laning as a bit of a class issue, as though it's a working class hobby and therefore deserving of derision. I recognised years ago that they would conveniently forget about disabled access once it became inconvenient. I would love to know how they propose to allow the disabled access to such sites. Helicopter or private jet perhaps? Realistically they will have no problem simply denying them access, that's the mentality of the people involved.

Having seen hoards of ramblers in brightly coloured clothing snaking across the countryside I can say from personal experience they are at least as much of an impact on the scenery as 4x4s if not moreso.

Don't forget some of our own cause problems. Not really an issue in this case but off-piste driving should be condemned by all, and heading off prepped up as though going on the camel trophy isn't a good idea either. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"

Post #803139 22nd Nov 2019 6:22am
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mini Anaconda



Member Since: 23 Aug 2016
Location: Thames Valley
Posts: 347

United Kingdom 

There was a similar feature on BBC Countryfile a couple of weeks ago about Greenlaning in the Lake District which left me shouting at the TV. Banging Head
The feature was very biased by the BBC and took the side of the ramblers which was disappointing when the BBC were using words such as extreme off roading, tearing up the countryside etc.

That said, I was driving Strata Florida earlier in the year and saw a modified Discovery doing just that going off piste. BORG - Bucks & Oxon 4x4 Response Group

Post #803164 22nd Nov 2019 11:27am
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custom90steve



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West England
Posts: 17478

United Kingdom 

There was a horse rider a few weeks ago on the TRF site o think it was or GLASS. I can’t quite remember making all sorts out.

When asked for proof and a photo, nothing. When asked by the site staff for info. Photo and or location to help with their claims nothing at all cane foreword.

Then, another female horse riders began commenting about the other and said it’s important to let everyone enjoy the countryside in peace and harmony.

I said, I mean if we wanted to be petty you could agri horse manure is a skid risk on the roads and dog owners get persecuted over it. But we don’t keep on about that do we.

She was on about tyres have more effect than horses. Yeah right.
And I said water erosion plays it’s part. “No it doesn’t”. It’s tyres etc etc

Nothing should be listened to or heard of without proof and evidence. If they film off piste driving etc then of course that’s wrong.

I love horses too, I like off road bikers and our own community. 9/10 horse riders are excellent, occasionally some are downright ignorant.
As we typically expect we don’t let the minority cause damage to all our freedoms.

It is quite disturbing to think there are so many obsessive people out there. Jealous and or over concerned about others. And I agree, with above there is class distinction involved which I’m strongly against.

To some, someone with an old D2 worth not much would still be a “snob or a toff”. There is this country / city thing going on as well.

I’ve seen it for a good few years now, people in car parks occasionally typically with a Zafira whispering to one another as if to say “some people - look at that”.

Much akin to the bobble hat brigade in a different format. In their case they believe the world should belong to them and their desires.
They’ll be the same ones who cycle and complain all car drivers are evil and shouldn’t be on the road.

What I am curious is, as to why the Peak District in particular? Is it a group that’s trying to spread their hate or some kind of local division of sone kind?

I guess, only locals know as I’ve never been there.
Glass were saying that older people like to have access too to enjoy the areas. Without their vehicle they can’t do that.

They deny that too.what lovely people they are - NOT. 🇬🇧 Made In GB. 🇬🇧

It May Not Be Very Fast, Never Has Slow Looked More Bad As*.

Post #803175 22nd Nov 2019 2:17pm
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Slideywindows



Member Since: 09 Sep 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 945

England 

Just another example (amongst many) of people who self-label as "liberal" behaving like fascists.

Resist.

Post #803211 22nd Nov 2019 5:25pm
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 2143

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

This all came to a head a while back when 4x4's caused damage to local tracks apparently making them impassable to farm traffic, locals and other park users. I saw the footage on the telly and it did look terrible. Basically an act of vandalism. Fortunately the Lake District National Park Authority realised this was a very rare occurrence carried out by a tiny minority and ruled to continue allowing 4x4's in the park. Thankfully and surprisingly a good result.
However after the ruling, rather than trying to build some bridges it would appear GLASS have a massive chip on their shoulder and have taken a 'hollier than thou' attitude, feigning outrage, spuriously claiming to be defending the rights of the disabled and now it would appear starting a petty internet campaign against anyone reporting the news. I think it makes GLASS look like a bunch of bitter angry simpletons and by association other 4x4 owners as well.
I reckon GLASS would better serve their members and the wider off-road community by promoting better practice by 4x4 users, highlighting the financial benefits of off-road tourism, valuable help by 4x4 response and perhaps propose providing regular volunteers to mend damaged tracks, replace signage, clean up litter etc. That would go a long way to regaining trust with the locals, create a positive story for the media and provide goodwill in the future when damage is caused by 4x4's. Because there will be more complaints against 4x4's and this issue won't go away just by sending moany emails and blaming everyone else WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.

Post #803383 24th Nov 2019 9:45am
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Joe the Plumber



Member Since: 18 Dec 2013
Location: Midlands
Posts: 582

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HT Fuji White

We should remember that if a pot hole appears in a tarmac road rendering the road unsuitable for use by motorised vehicles, the authorities don't close the road to the vehicles, they repair it to make it suitable for use again.

The same rules (laws) apply to unsurfaced roads with vehicular rights as to surfaced roads. If the 'ordinary traffic of the district' is damaging the road surface, the surface should be repaired so that it doesn't get damaged by said traffic.

But all this hassle and stress is why, after ten years as a TRF Rights of Way Officer, I don't do it any longer.

Post #803390 24th Nov 2019 12:32pm
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custom90steve



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West England
Posts: 17478

United Kingdom 

The reason GLASS don't want it reported all over the place is because the idea of doing so is to spread the word nationally.
Again, to build momentum and try and spread the work that off roaders are baddies and should be treated as such and watched and reported at every opportunity.

In the new era light, the attitude over the last few years is no longer innocent until proven juilty.
But instead, guilty unless proven innocent but still probably juilty in the eyes of the informer regardless.

It goes without saying of course though, don't drive any areas with no vehicular rights.
UCR's are grey areas so no one can partially argue, BOATS. (Byways Open to All Traffic) are fully legal.

I think some of it is complicated by the fact many do not know the access rights. (Or care?).
So they tend to believe a lane is a lane, even if it's a bridle way with a vehicle.

Mind you, I doubt it's unknown for a horse rider to go along a footpath which they shouldn't either.

It's a similar annoying situation with dedicated cycle paths, both bikes and pedestrians can use it.
However, cyclists seem to think it's a Tour De France race and ride about 30mph up and down it between the peoplelike as if it's a practice track.

So as I said, this is the reason GLASS is standing up for 4x4 revere action all use within the law because no one else will.
It was this demonisation of 4 x 4's and MX bikes back in the past which brought about the NERC Act thing.
Now, many lanes are actually lost completely and no used at all.

Land owners didn't need any encouragement, if the had their way some, but not all would have all rights of way removed if they could get away with it.

BBC is a crap set up, and Countryfile is or has become the most doom mongering programme I think there is.
I would imagine if too many farmers took much notice of that thing they'd give up all together. Rolling Eyes

Biggest issue around here isn't 4x4's lane damage or bikes but illegal dumping, in some cases XR types setting up camp on them too in a couple of places. Shocked In diesel lorries too.

I think it's a very sad, that there are some out there that have so little to do than be over concerned about what others are doing.
I wouldn't be surprised if the same lot don't complain about potholes, horse hoofprints, hedges. Farmers manure spreading etc etc. 🇬🇧 Made In GB. 🇬🇧

It May Not Be Very Fast, Never Has Slow Looked More Bad As*.

Post #803392 24th Nov 2019 12:57pm
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mick



Member Since: 08 Feb 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 2064

England 2010 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Rimini Red

I’ve no time for the BBC or Country file and all the do gooding hypocrites they get on.
They seem to ant to ban anything but walking in red socks and cheap waterproofs Evil or Very Mad makes my Censored boil.
It’s the same with these wanting to ban moorland shoots.

Post #803461 24th Nov 2019 11:17pm
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OsloBlue



Member Since: 14 Jul 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 717

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Oslo Blue

I have had quite a few experiences with the Greenlane/Bridleway/ Footpath& access road legality

Once I gave my mate a lift back home after he had surgery. His Farm access is a dirt track access and we got into an argument with a Hiker who was claiming it was a footpath/ bridleway when the footpath is actually unmarked and crosses the field where we shoot. he had to explain it was his (families) land and he could do with the track what he wanted. Said hiker called the police who got to the access gate and being rural police told them they could not access without invitation or warrant as it was indeed private property.

Where i live is next to the access road to the neighbours farm, and have had the same argument with other hikers as the is another footpath. I sometimes use the access road as i'm allowed to to avoid traffic and gain access to the motorway. The access road is a "public works access" and not a green lane. It was only made for public works access (IE plant) to go to the quarry/ farm from the farmers yard (which we back out on to and where i park) . and up to a certain extent is unsafe to travel on foot.

The Most recent was one of my projects is a landed estate and we're doing various works across the whole estate in partnership with the estates team. I gave a lift to a member of the estates team from one of the sites to another following a meeting and came across mounted horse riders who refused to yield as rather than being astern stayed at abreast meaning we could not pass. (they were coming towards us). They stated we were not allowed 4x4s on this road (and it is a private road as the whole estate is webbed with them) and that it was horses and Hikers only. Despite it being private property.

I am unsure what the situation is here? is it private or public land? I can't see why we all cant agree to get on and enjoy the lanes together. I would be happy to pay toll to green lane private roads to contribute to maintenance.

I can't say how they find 4x4s to blame without hikers & horses, also being contributing factor themselves. The local common has an "avenue" footpath with trees either side and just from Foot traffic alone is now a quagmire, and always has been for years. I'm on IG: https://www.instagram.com/osloblue42/
Defender Drag racer & achiever of "How is that possible" speed
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Post #803479 25th Nov 2019 9:53am
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