↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home > Tdi > Boost pin change no throttle response
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 1 of 1
Print this entire topic · 
Wildrover66



Member Since: 25 Apr 2018
Location: Kildare
Posts: 19

Ireland 
Boost pin change no throttle response

Having recently purchased a 300tdi 110 bought with the intent of configuring a reliable camping vehicle for trips and a daily drive small miles
Car was bought 3 weeks ago and whilst it drove ok it felt under powered but covered 200miles
so decided to improve performance I would change the boost pin.
300tdi no electronics and a manual, so having read every article written I am at a loss to this issue
Ok first thing is I don't believe in coincidence but once boost pin was swapped I had no throttle response on start. How could this change have caused this ??
Car starts and idles perfectly but it takes over a minute before any rpm change
Once throttle responds it revs normally through range but now no power when driving until 3000 rpm when turbo hit. Still undriveable as wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding .
So things tried and changed
New lift pump - no change
Clear fuel pipe - no air in system checked feed and return
System bled
Turbo has boost indicated above.5bar so works
All hoses brand new silicone
Boost pin changed back no change
Stroke limit pin moves acting on boost pin- no noticeable change to engine when manually depressed with engine running from idle to approx 4000rpm
Injectors appear to be working
No egr as blanked

So the last thing in the system is the fuel injection pump, does anyone have experience of these failing? If so what symptoms did you have.?

If there is a test or check I have missed all input appreciated
Cheers Matt

Post #773390 16th May 2019 6:44pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
donmacn



Member Since: 07 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 778

Hi Matt,

Three thoughts/questions from me:

what do you mean when you say it starts and idles OK 'but over a minute before any rev changes'? Do you mean you have to wait a minute before anything will happen, or that each time you press the accelerator you have to wait a minute?

Have you checked the vacuum advance pipe? Mine was holed in two places simply from abrasion. If you're losing pressure there, then the diaphragm won't be working as it should - maybe until 3000 revs when there's enough to do 'something'

Are you sure the diaphgram is OK? seated properly and not punctured? I think either or both of these could lead to the symptoms you're having. Certainly worth checking or ticking off your list.

Final thought - have you checked the vacuum hose at the turbo - not split or worn? You've said the turbo works, but .... I know my hose, from turbo to wastegate was knackered too. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 220k miles and going strong

The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

Post #773416 16th May 2019 8:28pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Les Brock



Member Since: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Stroud, Glos
Posts: 143

United Kingdom 

Did you lube Embarassed up the pin so it moves freely Question

Post #773419 16th May 2019 8:42pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Wildrover66



Member Since: 25 Apr 2018
Location: Kildare
Posts: 19

Ireland 

Hi Thanks for replies
Last first pin moves freely and lined, moved manually whilst engine running various revs to no noticeable effect.
This by design should eliminate the hose to the of the diaphragm and the diaphragm
But both those and diaphragm checked and appear ok
So car starts perfectly first time but full depression of the throttle has no effect at all no rev change then after approximately a minute it starts to respond then eventually revs freely
New vacuum hose
Only thing cant confirm is the waste gate operation I can move manually but cannot witness the operation while running
Thanks again

Post #773446 16th May 2019 9:36pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
donmacn



Member Since: 07 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 778

Sorry Matt, looking closely over what you've written I'm not sure I've got much more to offer.

A couple more thoughts though...

You've measured turbo boost. Assume that this is measured from the standard location - the T piece at the bottom right of the turbo housing? Someone more experienced than me might confirm this, but I thought a 300Tdi was supposed to be generating about 1bar of boost. So 0.5 would be low.

Also (my fault) I should have used the correct terms. What I called a vacuum hose is actually the 'fuel advance pipe'. That's the one you're saying is new? You're happy the joints at both ends are airtight, and that the pipe isn't holed or blocked? It wasn't 'new, old stock' which might have been kicking about somewhere?

If I understand you correctly you're also saying that things weren't wonderful before, but they've got worse since you changed the boost pin? At very least, having put the old pin back,you should be back where you started - which does still suggest to me that there's something going on with the diaphragm and fuel advance. Or, that something has been distrurbed within the injection pump. What's the mileage/history?

On the overall issue of sluggishness, do you know if the injection pump timing is OK? I've seen this done,though not done it myself, where a small tweak of the pump via the inspection port(?) makes a bit of difference to pick up/acceleration. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 220k miles and going strong

The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

Post #773464 16th May 2019 10:45pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Wildrover66



Member Since: 25 Apr 2018
Location: Kildare
Posts: 19

Ireland 

Donald

Car has 127k on the clock, agreed all of the hoses could be a cause of low powerbut all inspected and appear and test ok
I had 1 bar of boost but with current issue cant get there
Nothing explains the lack of throttle response on initial start as nothing touched based on what I have researched could or should have affected the throttle response
The timing is a good call and will check that next

Post #773470 16th May 2019 11:29pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
donmacn



Member Since: 07 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 778

well, 127k is nothing for a 300tdi in normal circumstances. Mine's on its original and un-touched pump at 230k, though it's likely a little worn.

However, that said, think I'm only helping to confirm what you said in your original post, that the pump itself needs to be suspect. I wonder if the car was ever run on sub-standard fuel which might have affected the pump innards? Maybe the work you've done has just disturbed something which was already there?

Sorry - I'm at the edge of my knowledge and experience. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 220k miles and going strong

The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

Post #773473 17th May 2019 12:03am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 5279

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

i have read all the above but dont quite follow the comments of it takes a minute after pushing accelerator for engine revs to change.

do you mean you push and hold the accelerator down and for 1min nothing happens then with it still held down it starts to build revs after a minute?

Or you push the accelerator down and release and a min later it revs.

60s is a long delay for anything.

Is that actuated from pedal or on top of FiP?

the pin/diaphragm are boost related they dont change the initial engine revs the throttle pedal does . i would be looking at the cable actuation into the pump and the mech on top of the pump.

does it crank crank start or start straight away?

when was timing belt done? Cheers

James
110 XS Utility
90 tdci Softtop
90 tdci Hardtop

Post #773495 17th May 2019 8:20am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Wildrover66



Member Since: 25 Apr 2018
Location: Kildare
Posts: 19

Ireland 

James

car starts first time on the key. There is no response, change in RPM when the throttle is depressed. Same applies when manually operating the cable from the the top of the pump.
So depressing or operating the throttle by either means has no effect on the rpm but after about a minute the RPM begins to build then would appear to rev freely.

Timing belt history unknown as car was sitting for the last 4 years being rebuilt so timing belt change was planned Monday and at this stage I will get the injection pump overhauled.

Still frustrated though as would really like to understand the cause of no throttle response and low power

Post #773546 17th May 2019 11:56am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 5279

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

so after a minute it run fine and responds to throttle.

lack of fuel availability until lift pump has drawm more up? doesnt explain the start and run at idle.

Give the filter a constant supply of fuel, 12v pump/swirl pot similar setup /gravity feed it

take the feed from tank via lift pump to filter out of equation and see if that makes difference. Cheers

James
110 XS Utility
90 tdci Softtop
90 tdci Hardtop

Post #773569 17th May 2019 2:21pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Wildrover66



Member Since: 25 Apr 2018
Location: Kildare
Posts: 19

Ireland 

Hi All

just to update all on the issues I was having
Well the car went in to my local independent and we agreed to send the injector pump of for overhaul.
It is now back and the feedback is that there were a few issues found to do with the timing and advance, still cant reconcile how these were affected by me changing the boost pin, so this will remain a mystery.
I can confirm now car is back and boost pin and boost ring in place it has plenty of go. which is all that matters now

Based on driveability whilst the change is significant before and after I think there were underlying issues with the FIP before I started touching it.

Thanks to those who provided feedback to my post

Post #777034 11th Jun 2019 11:54am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Mariner



Member Since: 03 Oct 2017
Location: Arklow
Posts: 120

Ireland 

Good that you got it sorted and all's well.

You live and learn Very Happy

Post #777079 11th Jun 2019 6:06pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
PAT303



Member Since: 25 Feb 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 75

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 X-Tech LE Nara Bronze

Your problem was caused by the fuel pin being stuck in the fully closed position when you removed the original boost pin.

Post #777992 18th Jun 2019 1:20pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
PAT303



Member Since: 25 Feb 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 75

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 X-Tech LE Nara Bronze

It is now back and the feedback is that there were a few issues found to do with the timing and advance,


How could they check the timing and advance with the pump off the engine?.

Post #777993 18th Jun 2019 1:22pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Wildrover66



Member Since: 25 Apr 2018
Location: Kildare
Posts: 19

Ireland 

Hi the reported issue was the internal timing was out
I didn't get any more information than that
With regard to the pin it appeared to be operating as I there were Mark's in the grease
As I checked it many times I ruled it out.
It was very frustrating at the time

Post #778344 20th Jun 2019 11:14pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Post Reply
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT + 1 Hour

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2019 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis