 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > Have LR painted themselves into a corner? |
 
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 3995   
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I’m inclined to agree with the views in this article, that Land Rover have somehow got themselves into the position where there isn’t room for both new Defender and Discovery in the current range. They don’t want to to sully the brand the brand with more utilitarian, cheaper models, so somethings got to give.
https://www.am-online.com/opinion/2019/03/...st-opinion 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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12th Mar 2019 9:35am |
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| OsloBlue Member Since: 14 Jul 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 822 
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The Disco already competes with the RR models...
No wonder LR are issuing Loss warnings when they only want to sell Luxury 4x4s, and the group as a whole competes with itself IE E & F pace vehicles... Don't even get me started on discovery utility vs Land cruiser utility... I'm on IG: https://www.instagram.com/osloblue42/ Current: TD5 '110 "Lucinda" Thread here: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic62562.html  |
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12th Mar 2019 9:41am |
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| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554 |
https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/...-revealed/
Discovery 1 Commercial Discovery 2 Commercial Discovery 3 Commercial and so on Discovery Commercial with new name I.E. defender |
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12th Mar 2019 9:45am |
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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7873 
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I've always thought the new Defender would basically be a D4. I also read somewhere that JLR need the Defender in the range to maintain the rugged go anywhere image of the brand to help sell the more luxurious models.
I certainly think there is room in the range for a more basic utilitarian model, the trouble is everything you read is saying the Defender won't be it. James MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers |
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12th Mar 2019 1:48pm |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3139 
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I long since though they have taken a big risk which has not paid off. They were doing this in the 90s when the disco first came out, they acknowledged then that the seven seat 90 would affect sales (it did, but not in the way they thought!) so why do they keep producing models that just compete with each other? I don't get it. They need to bring in something genuinely different. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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12th Mar 2019 2:01pm |
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| OsloBlue Member Since: 14 Jul 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 822
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Exactly that series, Exactly that.
Nothing stands out, and there are so many models competing with one another that they can't get Decent economies of scale. (with exception to the suzuki jimny). Think back 15 Years ago, If you wanted a hatchback it was a focus, if you wanted a compact car it was a astra or fiesta, if you wanted micro compact you had a Ka or Corsa, if you wanted a saloon you had a mondeo or insignia, if you wanted a luxury saloon it would be a mercedes or BMW, all vans were transits or LDV convoys, crossovers didn't exist, range rovers & discoveries were the closest to that, all pickups were navaras, and all utility vehicles were defenders. The above were probably 95% of all cars, and you might have had something exotic otherwise like a VW. I remember when there were swarms of Mondeos. Rarely see them anywhere. I can walk through a 600 car - car park and only see maybe three of the same vehicle, mainly 1 series BMWs, audi A3s and TTs. Diversification is great but specialisms rule the roost. I work for a company that is the market leader in the UK for its specialism and we probably win 60% of all contracts in the UK because we're good at what we do. its very rarely we actually fail to secure a contract but when we do we generally loose it to Non specialists. When they get lucky and win a contract and complete it they put up on that they're a specialist in the field despite only doing it once. its amazing the number of companies that do it once and think they're specialists, we've done these specialist contracts hundreds of times and probably dwarf all other "specialists" combined. Probably about 1 in 6 of all contracts are where we've had to go in there and take over a mess left by a supposed specialist. Which is a big deal when you have peoples lives at stake. My point being, Knock offs usually pale to the real deal, but if theirs money to be made and it denies a competitor then they'll do it. I'm on IG: https://www.instagram.com/osloblue42/ Current: TD5 '110 "Lucinda" Thread here: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic62562.html |
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12th Mar 2019 9:43pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2520  
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When the Range Rover Evoque came out LR then decided to make all of their models look the same from the front.
This in turn caused confusion, not just for non LR people but also enthusiasts who incorrectly identified the oncoming vehicle. Today whilst out driving I saw a Velar coming the other way. Well imagine my surprise when we passed and it turned out to be the new Evoque. Clearly this is the new tactic so expect other models to look like Velars. The funny thing was that the only way LR could stop their range looking like the Evoque was to make the Evoque look like a Velar. Had to laugh to myself but the sad thing is this (and the continued increases in prices) is not going to help sell new vehicles outside of the core customers who trade up at the end of their PCP agreement. If the new Defender continues as we think it might (no live axles and no ability to fit 35s as standard) it wont stand a chance in America against the current Jeep JL and Toyota 4 Runner / Tacoma. Same as Australia so where does LR expect to sell the new Defender apart from existing Discovery owners. |
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12th Mar 2019 9:47pm |
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| mikelike Member Since: 31 Aug 2011 Location: new zealand Posts: 108 |
Yes I believe they are in a very sticky corner of their own doing .
They as a group are constantly at the bottom of every quality and reliability survey the industry produces , China is in freefall and a very distinctive and very successful product , the Discovery seems to be an absolute disaster ! I am not talking about the glorified Freelander they call a sport , despite a drop off in quality from the last freelander , the sport seems acceptable but not the high quality product they seem to believe they produce . I believe Jerry McGovern has lead them up the garden path with cuff link engineering ! There strategy is falling apart and if they have not listened to their current Defender clientele and the 4x4 markets of Australasia Africa and what the Americas actually want , well I believe all credibility will be lost ! An electronic Defender will be an epic failure like Discovery 5 is ! Just look at the global waiting lists for the new Suzuki Jimny and know that JLR could of achieved some thing very similar for a Defender replacement . Keep the vehicle simple and surely you can develop some much needed world class reliability like Toyota does . I am getting worried for JLR . |
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13th Mar 2019 9:43am |
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| cozz Member Since: 15 May 2013 Location: nottingham Posts: 521 |
I drive past a suzuki dealer every day and have been to see the new Jimny
I was thinking today, you remember they did a vitara and then a "grand Vitara" If they did a "grand jimny" it would be such a good defender replacement |
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13th Mar 2019 8:49pm |
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| SN Member Since: 30 Jun 2007 Location: SK6 Posts: 729 |
well having every car look the same as all the others in the range seems to have worked for audi and bmw for years and years, so why wouldn't it work for LR? Steve N | 21MY Defender
| 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history) |
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14th Mar 2019 2:12pm |
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| Swine&Small Member Since: 20 Mar 2017 Location: Norfolk Posts: 1223
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[quote="
Keep the vehicle simple and surely you can develop some much needed world class reliability like Toyota does . I am getting worried for JLR .[/quote] But at least the job losses will be in Eastern Europe.  1983 Series 3 Pick up in Marine Blue
1967 Morris Traveller 1966 Morris Convertible 2012 VW T5 Camper Quod Abundat Non Obstat. |
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14th Mar 2019 2:14pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443 
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JLR's cost cutting exercise seems to be a bit deeper than it outwardly appears. Today I was supposed to be taking junior son to an Apprenticeship Interview in the Drivetrain Department, he's gone through quite a few hoops in the past 6 months with online tests and phone interviews and on Monday he received an email saying that the whole apprenticeship scheme he was going for has been cancelled, sorry for any inconvenience but tough titty if you were thinking of a career with JLR Drivetrain.
For him it's not the end of the world as he applied for it in the first place to give him more options in his final year in sixth form and with conditional placements offered from Warwick, Coventry, Birmingham and Harper Adams Universities for enrolment on a Degree Course in Automotive Engineering he's been more inclined to go for the University route anyway. The biggest draw was that as an apprentice he'd be straight into JLR, on the books with at least £16K but ending up with HND/HNC qualifications, at least with an Engineering Degree he'd be employable by many companies at a higher level. All these Universities work with the major manufacturers anyway including JLR. |
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14th Mar 2019 5:49pm |
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| Ramajama Member Since: 28 Jul 2016 Location: Heartland, ‘Murica Posts: 109 
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If Defender competes with the Jeep Wrangler and offers comparable priced trim levels, then there will be more than enough room for BOTH Discovery and Defender. Truth. 2018 RAM Power Wagon (American Muscle)
2003 Land Rover Discovery II HSE 7 (Still deciding on its role) 2004 Land Rover Discovery II SE (British Steel...& aluminum) 2015 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE Lux (Soccer Mom car) |
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14th Mar 2019 8:21pm |
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| diduan Member Since: 13 Oct 2016 Location: Central Balkan Posts: 260 
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A possible way out could be to offer an affordable multipirpose vehicle and I hope the new defender will be such vehicle. Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR
Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt |
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14th Mar 2019 8:34pm |
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