 | Home > Off Topic > Independent suspension discussion (was 2020 Def) |
 
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971   
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Defender don't have portals, that's a Unimog thing. Defender have solid (often known as beam) axles. Independent suspension rides much better and the suspension has a much easier job keeping the tyres on the road because the unsprung weight is much reduced. Properly designed it can work well on an off road vehicle too (Pinzgauer and some Tatra trucks) however on the vast majority of modern vehicles it's not designed to work properly off road. The system the Pinz uses is also completely different to how any normal independent suspension vehicles does it. Solid axles tend to handle heavy loads better, your ground clearance doesn't change when you load them up, they're much more robust and you don't have a load of exposed CV joints that can be easily damaged. You also maintain ground clearance when driving off road. When an independent suspension wheel goes over a lump, it doesn't pick the diff up in the same was a solid axle vehicle does. That's good for comfort but bad for picking a line. The reasons I prefer solid axles is that there is less to go wrong. You have far fewer joints and linkages to break, far fewer bushes to wear out, everything is more robust and all the delicate bits are protected inside a lump of steel. On a Defender you have two CV joints and they're inside the metal swivel. On something like a Discovery you have eight CV joints and they're only protected by a flimsy bit of rubber. For most people, independent suspension is better. For Defenders that get used for Defendering, solid axles are better. If I was building an off road race car I'd definitely have independent suspension. I'm not, I have a remote area plodder. |
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10th Nov 2018 1:37pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971
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And most modern designs of independent suspension don't have much travel either.
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11th Nov 2018 4:28pm |
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| hafman Member Since: 28 Mar 2017 Location: W Sussex Posts: 81
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Cough - not forgetting the marvellous Haflinger too <<<<<<<<<<<<<<   |
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11th Nov 2018 5:17pm |
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| jfh Member Since: 08 Jan 2014 Location: West Coast Posts: 348  
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The UK military replacement for the Defender is the Foxhound and it has independent suspension.
Hopefully LR took some notes. |
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11th Nov 2018 8:23pm |
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| Slideywindows Member Since: 09 Sep 2016 Location: North Essex Posts: 1283 
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Rover were well ahead and experimented with independent suspension 50 years ago.
A friend owns what is believed to be the only surviving test mule, a Series Two. They concluded that beam axles suited the purpose to which utility Land Rovers would usually be put, and it didn't seem to stop the world's military buying tens of thousands of them while they were still available. |
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11th Nov 2018 9:43pm |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1350 
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Slideywindows, any chance you could post some photos of your friend's S2?
That sounds really interesting, not seen any pictures or stories in the mags about that. I'm sure many would like to see it. |
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11th Nov 2018 10:25pm |
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| Slideywindows Member Since: 09 Sep 2016 Location: North Essex Posts: 1283
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I've seen it a couple of times but never taken any photos as it was not of interest to me.
I think it has independent suspension at the front only now. He's a long-time member of the 48-53 Register but doesn't court publicity, although I believe it may have been written about in a mag at some time in the past. Maybe Defender9 will know more, if he reads this. |
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11th Nov 2018 10:48pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11240 
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That S2 only ever had front independent suspension. It was one of six built (3 LWB, 3 SWB|) to evaluate the idea following the introduction of the Austin Gypsy. It obviously didn't catch on.
 Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge As far as I know, this is the only survivor and, at one point, was part of the Dunsfold Collection. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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11th Nov 2018 11:32pm |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1350
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Thanks for posting.
It's obviously a major modification. Suspension, steering, transmission and chassis would all need to be re-engineered. Not surprised it was dropped in the early 1960s. |
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11th Nov 2018 11:58pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971
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Yes, the baby Pinz which is confusingly also its father 
I would love to have a use for one! |
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12th Nov 2018 12:21am |
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| Ramajama Member Since: 28 Jul 2016 Location: Heartland, ‘Murica Posts: 109 
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Yup, The US Military’s go to vehicle has independent suspension. Seems to have worked out pretty well. |
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12th Nov 2018 4:17am |
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| OsloBlue Member Since: 14 Jul 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 822 
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The fox hound/ ocelot is supplementing the snatch for frontline service. The WMIK is being replaced by the jackal 1&2 and the other one Husky & panther are replacing the Commanders IK and FFR WMIKs are still retained by second line force protection units and yeomanry reserve regiments. Snatch is still being used for urban riot pacification, and the ten thousand or so wolfs are still being used as runabouts. I think, but don’t quote me on this, that the reason for independent suspension is due to automatic ZF gearboxes now being used on all of the above vehicles, and that independent suspension is more resistant to IED blasts. I think all the vehicles in the British army bar the Cr2 are now autos, I think the last manuals that were delivered were the refurbished early jackals that were hand-me-downs from THEM. I'm on IG: https://www.instagram.com/osloblue42/ Current: TD5 '110 "Lucinda" Thread here: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic62562.html |
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12th Nov 2018 9:48am |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6477 
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Discussion split
1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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12th Nov 2018 10:27am |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971
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The Humvee's had independent suspension since the year dot. Without a doubt it's better for high (or relatively high) speed off road use and it's more comfortable (so less fatiguing) for the occupants. I guess if you're making an mine resistant vehicle it's also easier to package around a V hull. If you had a full axle under the V you'd end up with a ridiculously tall vehicle but you could mount the suspension on the sides of a V and have something much more sensible. The fact remains though that if you look at the vehicles on the market, those with independent front suspension (Hilux, D-Max et al) have far more suspension flex in their rear axle than in the front and far more components to wear out and break. |
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13th Nov 2018 6:00am |
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