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JimboSails



Member Since: 14 Sep 2015
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 144

United Kingdom 
Defender Winter Tyres or AT?
Every year I take my 110 to France for some skiing. I'd like to put some better tyres on it to deal with the snow and ice (currently the tyres are capable but mismatched) and am also considering the implications of what I'm driving on for the motorway trip out there.

What are people's thoughts on 'Winter' Tyres? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they are made from softer rubber compounds, as well as having different treads?

I could replace all five tyres with a decent All Terrain and have done, or another thought is to buy 4x wheels with Winter Tyres, and swap them when I arrive out there, then swap them back before the long drive home.

I'm out for 3 weeks, and have been caught out before with my old Discovery, so want to get it right.
Post #728744 13th Sep 2018 11:17am
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camelman



Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3316

United Kingdom 
A number of the current 'AT' tyres are also 'Winter rated' (i.e. have the snowflake ratings.)

BFG KO2s are one example and Ive found them to be excellent in snow and ice over the last couple of winters.

2 sets of wheels and tyres would be a proper pain, unless you were running pure on road tyres in the summer.




Click image to enlarge
 
Post #728746 13th Sep 2018 11:19am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Re: Defender Winter Tyres or AT?
JimboSails wrote:
Every year I take my 110 to France for some skiing. I'd like to put some better tyres on it to deal with the snow and ice (currently the tyres are capable but mismatched) and am also considering the implications of what I'm driving on for the motorway trip out there.

What are people's thoughts on 'Winter' Tyres? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they are made from softer rubber compounds, as well as having different treads?

I could replace all five tyres with a decent All Terrain and have done, or another thought is to buy 4x wheels with Winter Tyres, and swap them when I arrive out there, then swap them back before the long drive home.

I'm out for 3 weeks, and have been caught out before with my old Discovery, so want to get it right.


Frankly, your second option is a lot of effort when as already mentioned BFG KO2s absolutely do the job. I live in the Alps year round, and have had no problems, even with all the snow last year.


Click image to enlarge


Rarely are the roads to major ski stations so bad you’ll need full winter tyres (and chains). Of course there is the argument that winter tyres are good for any road conditions below about 7c, so if you were to put them on at the beginning of winter and keep them on for the whole season, (as done by normal cars here), then it would be worth it. But if you’re thinking of a full winter set-up just for the week you’re skiing, at a grand for wheels and tyres, that’s a lot of ski passes or fondue. IMHO BFG KO2s will do all you need them to.... Thumbs Up Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #728749 13th Sep 2018 11:37am
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windy81



Member Since: 14 Mar 2018
Location: North Wales
Posts: 311

Wales 1992 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Firenze Red
Not in the least envious of you Grenadier, honestly.
Post #728763 13th Sep 2018 1:25pm
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Countryman2



Member Since: 18 Mar 2018
Location: The North
Posts: 53

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Other XS CSW Scotia Grey
My 90 has the original Continental Cross Contact AT M+S 235/85 R 16c tyres. This will be my first winter with the car in the snowy north of England. Although M+S presumably means mud and snow, there is no snowflake symbol. Does anyone know how they will perform in snow? There’s loads of tread left.
Post #728779 13th Sep 2018 2:18pm
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Dunc99



Member Since: 25 Oct 2015
Location: Lake District
Posts: 8

United Kingdom 
My defender 90 came with BFG ATs but after they lost grip on a flat snow covered road and put me in a ditch, I switched to Cooper Discoverer M+S 215/85r16 which have performed brilliantly in snow in the winter (Beast from the East in Cumbria) and festival mud in the summer and greenlanes all year round.
Post #728783 13th Sep 2018 2:42pm
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MadTom



Member Since: 10 Sep 2013
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 567

Czech Republic 1999 Defender 130 Td5 HCPU Baltic Blue
New BFG AT KO2 are OK in winter, but only for first one or two years. No problem in deep snow, but on compacted snow or ice you can be surprised moving only straight. Problem is also in braking. Real winter tires are better.
I have 3 sets of tires (AT for trips and summer, MT for pay in mud ad Winter for winter) for Discovery 2 and for Defender 130. I have seen some Defender tipped over in winter on MT tires. And it was very fast. My personal experience is - with Defender on MT in deep snow I was king, on compacted snow it was nice, but not best braking performance, on clean ice it moved nice, but no steering and no braking - so the car has chosen to go straight through crossing with another road. Colleague in second car with winter tyres was able to stop, but it was tight for him. The difference is not big, but it is there. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo Smile
Post #728784 13th Sep 2018 2:47pm
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apt100



Member Since: 05 Mar 2015
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1547

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
Countryman2 wrote:
My 90 has the original Continental Cross Contact AT M+S 235/85 R 16c tyres. This will be my first winter with the car in the snowy north of England. Although M+S presumably means mud and snow, there is no snowflake symbol. Does anyone know how they will perform in snow? There’s loads of tread left.


They will probably be fine in snow, especially fresh snow.
It's compacted, polished snow and frost & ice that I would be more worried about.
Mine came with the Contis from new. My choice was to get a second set of take off wheels (which were very common a couple of years ago) and run the popular Nokian Hakka' LT2.

Every year there is a similar discussion and someone usually says how their Turbo Muther Hugger MT were absolutely brilliant in the winter... apart from that one time when.... usually followed by an anecdote of going straight on at a bend or sliding out of control down a hill (or both) and often followed by a claim that no tyres would have made any difference.
Post #728822 13th Sep 2018 8:17pm
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
^^ You are nailing it. They are just good at huggering muther. I guess....
I’m about to order 4 new Nokian Hakka LT2 to replace my now 8 year old first generation LT. Careful driving and those new boots will give reasonable peace of mind here up on our mountain for another 5 or more winters to come.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #728823 13th Sep 2018 8:41pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3995

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
MadTom wrote:
New BFG AT KO2 are OK in winter, but only for first one or two years. No problem in deep snow, but on compacted snow or ice you can be surprised moving only straight. Problem is also in braking. Real winter tires are better.
I have 3 sets of tires (AT for trips and summer, MT for pay in mud ad Winter for winter) for Discovery 2 and for Defender 130. I have seen some Defender tipped over in winter on MT tires. And it was very fast. My personal experience is - with Defender on MT in deep snow I was king, on compacted snow it was nice, but not best braking performance, on clean ice it moved nice, but no steering and no braking - so the car has chosen to go straight through crossing with another road. Colleague in second car with winter tyres was able to stop, but it was tight for him. The difference is not big, but it is there.


I will say they are ok in fresh snow and slush. We were caught in bad blizzards in northern Spain early this year. Motorway closed, so we crossed the mountains on back roads. We were waved through a police road block at the start of a pass just because Land Rovers get you special treatment anywhere in the world! Copper just lent in, pointed at diff lock and said “Quattro pour Quattro” with a thumbs up!

To be honest, I thought we had made a mistake because of the tyres and not having chains, but those Cross Contacts were superb in that fresh snow. For three hours we were on switch back mountain roads, heavy snow fall. Traction and braking was really impressive. You can see in this pic that the treads self clean well...



Click image to enlarge
 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #728828 13th Sep 2018 9:20pm
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Countryman2



Member Since: 18 Mar 2018
Location: The North
Posts: 53

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Other XS CSW Scotia Grey
That’s very reassuring. Thanks. Did the lack of the mountain symbol cause any problems in Europe or does no one check?
Post #728836 13th Sep 2018 9:57pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3995

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
I think if you are going to an area where 3pmsf is mandatory, you would be wise to get something that complies. It could get awkward from an insurance and liability perspective if you were in an accident. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #728840 13th Sep 2018 10:09pm
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apt100



Member Since: 05 Mar 2015
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1547

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
Winter tyres are designed to fill the treads with snow because this gives the best grip apparently.

A quick search found this from Uniroyal, but there are better articles around. Continental I think have an animated video showing the tread filing with snow. It's counter-intuitive because it is exactly the opposite of what MT/AT tyres are designed to do.



Click image to enlarge
Post #728845 13th Sep 2018 11:00pm
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camelman



Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3316

United Kingdom 
Probably worth noting that it's only the BFG KO2s that have the winter rating (and the sipps in the tread).
The original KOs don't. 
Post #728884 14th Sep 2018 10:11am
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DuncanS



Member Since: 07 Dec 2013
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 295

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
I was out during the Beast from the East with the response team. I must say that my BFG KO2's performed remarkably well, collecting a full circle of snow into the treads making them perform admirably in heavy snow conditions, even when on normal road pressures. North Cumbria Search and Rescue - Team Leader
Post #728918 14th Sep 2018 1:26pm
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