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MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 1937

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White

Just by looking I dont think you can tell if you have an out of range or leaky injector.
A pilot calibration can fail because of many factors, one of them being faulty injector. I can probably say that sometimes a failed pilot correction can lead to white smoke. High maf, low map and egr figures can also contribute. Im talking by personal experience. Im not a specialist. Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

Post #753437 23rd Jan 2019 7:50pm
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ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 213

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey

Again, whilst you've got them out you may as well get them tested. It's cheap enough and you can't really tell by looking.

As components wear they can become a little out of sync, the pump re-learn and pilot correction can help and cure a faint knock from my personal (non-professional) experience.

A faulty VCV can cause issues too. Again fairly cheap to replace. If your idle isn't steady (as it it jumps up and down a bit) I'd go for VCV being faulty if the injectors turn out to be ok. Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)

Post #753455 23rd Jan 2019 8:47pm
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Tomotomo



Member Since: 13 Feb 2018
Location: Bucks
Posts: 42

United Kingdom 

I have been quoted 125 quid to bench test them. Is that about fair?
The cynic in me is telling me they will turn around and say they are all knackered. Whistle Laughing
Guess I should get a print out?

Post #753596 24th Jan 2019 1:02pm
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MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 1937

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White

I had the same problem. I had to spend some time looking for a shop that would not just wanted to sell me new injectors. Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

Post #753600 24th Jan 2019 1:09pm
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Tomotomo



Member Since: 13 Feb 2018
Location: Bucks
Posts: 42

United Kingdom 

Are they supposed to come out dripping in oil?

Click image to enlarge


I have two out now. Two to go.
I pulled the connectors off the injectors one by one while it was running. No 1 cylinder made hardly any change.
No 2 a little
No 3 the biggest change
No 4 a little.
So I am guessing no 3 is my healthiest
Cylinder/ injector
Neutral

Post #753618 24th Jan 2019 1:59pm
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MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 1937

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White

All normal. When refitting make sure the injector seat on the head is clean. Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

Post #753621 24th Jan 2019 2:08pm
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Tomotomo



Member Since: 13 Feb 2018
Location: Bucks
Posts: 42

United Kingdom 

Ok they are in for testing should find out tomorrow. Tried to clean the head where the injector goes. I don't have a seat cutter. What else could I use ? A clean cloth and a flat head screw driver? Is it ok to spray some brake cleaner down there to loosen the oil and carbon?
I will do an oil change when it's back together.
I have taken the rocker cover off and changed the gasket.
Can't see any copper washers on the head. Just on the end of the injectors. They look unworn. I will change them anyway.

Post #753704 24th Jan 2019 7:48pm
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MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 1937

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White

For cleaning I use a cloth wrapped around the same thin and long bolt used for the inj. clamps. The idea is to remove debris, soot particles, etc. I would not spray anything. Yo do need to change the washers as they get flattened once used. Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

Post #753733 24th Jan 2019 9:39pm
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ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 213

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey

As suggested if you can get away with it use a cloth on something long, preferably round ended tool.

If the seats are really bad you'd need a seat cutter but be careful, I bought a cheap one thinking it wouldn't be that good. It didn't seem that sharp. Didn't push down on it or anything but by gosh the head is soft, turned once and it seemed to take of all the crud and some metal.

Let us know how you get on with the injectors... I thought that price was a bit steep though to be honest Whistle

Forgot to say, as you're not refitting them straight away as long as what you spray will evaporate I can't see it doing any harm, but again I'm not an expert Thumbs Up Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)

Post #753794 24th Jan 2019 11:53pm
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Tomotomo



Member Since: 13 Feb 2018
Location: Bucks
Posts: 42

United Kingdom 

injector results.....
Well surprise surprise they all failed. Big Cry Banging Head Censored
I am not sure I entirely trust the diagnosis.
But i cant really make head nor tail of the results.
Any help deciphering the following would be great.

Click image to enlarge





Click image to enlarge




Click image to enlarge




Click image to enlarge


Bow down

Post #753842 25th Jan 2019 12:27pm
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MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 1937

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White

TBH I do not know what it means. You can ask the shop what is the problem: leak, full load, return, preinjection, emissions. Those are the parameters I know. I hope somebody with more knowledge can help. Worse case scenario you can get new ones at 150 quid ea from a forum member.

If the issues are the nozzles then you can have them exchanged. They are sold as spares. Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

Post #753846 25th Jan 2019 12:42pm
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ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 213

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey

Hmm, I'm no expert either.

What I can see though is that on page 2 injectors 1,2,3 were out of range of 'normal values' and on page 3 injector 4 was out of range.

Also on page 2 a temperature reading was slightly high.

Perhaps take the sheets to another garage and ask their opinion on the results? Knowing that you'd removed the injectors yourself I would have thought they'd have guessed you wouldn't be buying new ones from them and as such wouldn't have biased the results?

Let us know how you get on Thumbs Up Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)

Post #753918 25th Jan 2019 7:03pm
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Tomotomo



Member Since: 13 Feb 2018
Location: Bucks
Posts: 42

United Kingdom 

Thanks for the advice.
Yes I noticed the temp was above the set point.
I wonder if that's the way they can manipulate the results?
Problem I have is I guess I will never know.
The tester said that no 4 injector was the most worrying as it had practically no pilot .01
And i think the last page is leak off amounts and it had the highest.
So logic should say that no 4 was causing the misfire at idle.
But as none off them leaked in 1st test if I am reading it right, that wouldn't explain the extra grey smoke I get when it's starting from cold.
Feeling a bit down as know i am thinking it could be compression related as that typically improves as an engine warms...
Problem is you can't compression test with the fuel pump on ?
Maybe I should just bite the bullet buy 4 new injectors.
Coul

Post #754027 26th Jan 2019 12:15pm
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ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 213

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey

Unless you're willing to hand it over to a transit specialist, or get the injectors re-tested I think you're right, change the injectors and see what happens. It is a rather expensive leap of faith to take though...

Out of interest, how bad is the misfire at idle? Do you have a video of it? Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)

Post #754030 26th Jan 2019 12:20pm
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4wd-junky



Member Since: 31 Aug 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 89

United Kingdom 

Grey smoke at cold start could also be caused by the EGR valve.

I'm reading with interest, but as you've discovered we're all out of our depth on this one ….. I'd be looking for a transit expert that you can trust.


Last edited by 4wd-junky on 26th Jan 2019 9:27pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #754063 26th Jan 2019 2:45pm
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