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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2260

Supacat wrote:
Reply received this afternoon:

"Subject: Re: Calling Stacie - Defender Alarm Overlay Kit
Message:
Hi Supacat,

Thank you for your reply.

I have taken the opportunity to liaise with the Land Rover technical team who have advised the below.

There were 2 technical bulletins released for the alarm system in the Defenders.

LTB00893 is for vehicles from 2007-2013 VIN 732615-446832 – This bulletin is available as we no longer supply the old type alarm system (10as) due to the supplier no longer producing this product. There is not a known concern with the unit however if a fault occurred with the original unit the later system can be fitted to a vehicle.

i think stacie is very good at copy and pasting! Very Happy

LTB00877v2 is for vehicles from 2014-2016 VIN 446832-490328 – This bulletin is available for concerns when the alarm system does not work but if the battery is disconnected and then re connected it works correctly again. If a module was due to fail in this way we would expect to see this early on after the vehicle has been manufactured.

You may also find the information below helpful.

1. As above the LTB is due to parts availability only and vehicles 2014 onward VIN 446832 have the later type module fitted.
2. Vehicles 2014 onwards were fitted with the later module as we could not get the earlier module.
3. There is no issue with the old type 10AS module.

Thanks, Stacie"

Any comments?
Post #688085 21st Feb 2018 7:15pm
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defender_uk



Member Since: 12 Aug 2011
Location: SW Scotland
Posts: 197

Scotland 
She must have taken the hint with all the pms 2020 First Ed 110.

replaced by 2021 250 110 Commercial

Defender_uk
Post #688088 21st Feb 2018 7:21pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
She's cut & pasted the reply to both of us Confused

and totally ignored the TSB I have referenced - LTB00386.

However, I think there is an answer to the cutoff point for the TSB, if it can be assumed that the new alarm system fitted from VIN 446832 did not contain the same vunerability we are talking about. Although the later TSB suggests it had a far more serious fault! Embarassed

I will check if the revised loom was never incorporated into the production line, but it seems that may have been the case.

S to clarify, I think TSB LTB00386 applies to all vehicles in the range VIN LD622424 to 446832, which is from MY 2002 to MY 2013.
Post #688089 21st Feb 2018 7:22pm
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defender_uk



Member Since: 12 Aug 2011
Location: SW Scotland
Posts: 197

Scotland 
And to my pm....😞 2020 First Ed 110.

replaced by 2021 250 110 Commercial

Defender_uk
Post #688090 21st Feb 2018 7:23pm
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2260

Supacat wrote:
She's cut & pasted the reply to both of us Confused

and totally ignored the TSB I have referenced - LTB00386.

However, I think there is an answer to the cutoff point for the TSB, if it can be assumed that the new alarm system fitted from VIN 446832 did not contain the same vunerability we are talking about. Although the later TSB suggests it had a far more serious fault! Embarassed

I will check if the revised loom was never incorporated into the production line, but it seems that may have been the case.

S to clarify, I think TSB LTB00386 applies to all vehicles in the range VIN LD622424 to 446832, which is from MY 2002 to MY 2013.


Hi supercat ..are you about TSB LTB00386? as stacies reply to my question was "I have had a look at our internal system and i can see that the technical bulletin LTB00386 would be applicable for your vehicle. From the system I can see that this has not been carried out to your vehicle and I would advise for you to contact your local approved Land Rover retailer should you wish for this to be carried out as they would be able to provide you with the relevant costings." and mine is a oct 2014 built my 2015 model i must admit i am a little confused and thats probably due to stacies obfuscation!
Post #688096 21st Feb 2018 7:40pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
The change at 446832 was the discontinuation of the Lucas 10AS unit and the subsequent use of whatever alternative device was used to run-out. Given that these are ostensibly interchangable, you cannot conclude that there is any correlation between this VIN and the LTB386 TSB.

It is very disappointing that she has completely failed to mention the TSB you specifically asked about, and indeed even denies its existence, despite acknowledging it a few replies earlier.

Dare I suggest that this indicates both a complete lack of technical understanding and a very dismissive attitude to a legitimate customer concern?
Post #688147 21st Feb 2018 10:52pm
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2260

nitram17 wrote:
nitram17 wrote:
As requested Supercat hope i am not breaking any rules here?

11th Feb Initial e mail addressed to Amelia

HI Amelia is it possible if you could confirm if the workaround for the a10 alarm is appropriate for a 2015 defender and that the data sheet is also appropriate part number LLR031883 DATASHEET LBT00386 Best wishes Martin

13th Feb Stacie replied
Hi nitram17,

Could you please provide me with the VIN for your vehicle, once received I would be happy to look into this for you.

Thanks


Stacie

13th Feb my response
Hi Stacie
My vin is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i have heard that this alarm overlay was a fix if the owner requests it deal.... but at some point in time it became a fix at point of manufacture . Can you confirm if i require this fix or has it been carried out at manufacture? It would be helpful if you could also provide a before and after point via a vin number if this indeed became a manufacturers fix .best wishes Martin


19th Feb stacies reply
Hi Martin,

Thank you for confirming your vehicle details.

I have had a look at our internal system and i can see that the technical bulletin LTB00386 would be applicable for your vehicle. From the system I can see that this has not been carried out to your vehicle and I would advise for you to contact your local approved Land Rover retailer should you wish for this to be carried out as they would be able to provide you with the relevant costings.

I would like to advise that Modifications and Technical bulletins are available to all of our retailers as the engineers at Jaguar Land Rover are aware of how to fix specific concerns. This means that an information sheet has been created and made available so they are able to carry out the correct level of repair to a vehicle. This is used as a guide and the required repair would not necessarily be covered by Jaguar Land Rover.
Thanks, Stacie

I agree with you about the openness supercat..but i think the pms are used because stacie and all the other lterations in her role tend to respond quicker to pms.....


further communication
21/02/18
Hi Stacie yes I was disappointed with the response!l purchased my defender with the belief that it had a decent alarm and immobilizer.......only to find out that it is not really fit for .I now find out that (a couple of months after its warranty is finished)that the indicators share the same fuse as the alarm and the alarm fuse can be blown by shorting the wing indicators.To top it all LR knew about the problem with the alarm and even developed a fix for it as early as 2011 but tellingly failed to incorporate it into the manufacturing process.My biggest gripe is that LR are asking the customer to pay to install a fix to a substandard alarm system which in my case should have been fixed at manufacture once the problem was identified in2011.

Can you please answer the following questions...
1...Has the bulletin alarm fix been introduced to the manufacturing process ..if so what date and vin number
2....If the answer to above is no..why not? Basically are any defender owners covered post 2011 when LR identified the problem with the alarm.
3...Why do owners have to pay for a fix to a substandard product,a product without the fix that is not fit for purpose.

Please note ..this message will be posted on the open forum as a few owners are interested in the subject.

very prompt response!

reply from stacie 21/02/18
Hi Martin,

Thank you for your reply.

I have taken the opportunity to liaise with the Land Rover technical team who have advised the below.

There were 2 technical bulletins released for the alarm system in the Defenders.

LTB00893 is for vehicles from 2007-2013 VIN 732615-446832 – This bulletin is available as we no longer supply the old type alarm system (10as) due to the supplier no longer producing this product. There is not a known concern with the unit however if a fault occurred with the original unit the later system can be fitted to a vehicle.

LTB00877v2 is for vehicles from 2014-2016 VIN 446832-490328 – This bulletin is available for concerns when the alarm system does not work but if the battery is disconnected and then re connected it works correctly again. If a module was due to fail in this way we would expect to see this early on after the vehicle has been manufactured.

In answer to your questions I have listed the response from the technical team below.

1. The LTB is due to parts availability only and vehicles 2014 onward VIN 446832 have the later type module fitted.
2. Vehicles 2014 onwards were fitted with the later module as we could not get the earlier module.
3. There is no issue with the old type 10AS module.

Thanks, Stacie

I am a little confused with the reply Embarassed as if you look at the response she gave me I have had a look at our internal system and i can see that the technical bulletin LTB00386 would be applicable for your vehicle. From the system I can see that this has not been carried out to your vehicle and I would advise for you to contact your local approved Land Rover retailer should you wish for this to be carried out as they would be able to provide you with the relevant costings.[i][/i no mention of this in her last reply!


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Post #688152 22nd Feb 2018 12:05am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Thanks for posting the TSB, it is actually the first time that I have seen a (genuine) English language version complete. Useful.
Post #688167 22nd Feb 2018 8:25am
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nosnibod



Member Since: 15 Aug 2007
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 365

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Corris Grey
I've just posted in the other thread about this. According to the official MY12 wiring diagrams (VIN 412051 onwards) the wiring is already as per the TSB.

I don't have the wiring diagrams prior to that to see if the wiring is the same, but on the diagrams it is very easy to spot by comparing what the TSB does against the diagrams.

For reference the TSB does the following - connect pin 8 of the AS10 connector and splices it into the wire from pin 2 on the hazard switch, exactly as per the snippet from the MY12 diagram below.


Click image to enlarge
 Dave
Gracie - 2015 110 XS County Station Wagon
Post #688349 23rd Feb 2018 6:19am
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2260

That's a good spot!I will post the 2007 diagram when I find it... Why couldn't. LR Cr just say its been updated?
Post #688358 23rd Feb 2018 7:27am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Very useful, thanks. It would appear that that answers the question that JLR has failed to answer. Thumbs Up
Post #688366 23rd Feb 2018 8:39am
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MartnH



Member Since: 30 Oct 2017
Location: Nsw
Posts: 28

Australia 
Hi guys...
So recently my 10As blew in my my13 defender..

This is very confusing....But are there only two versions of the 10AS used in Defenders?

One green and one black?....
Or there is a black version 2...

My 10as blew for no reason. What I mean blew is the unit short-circuit and produce lots of smoke....
It is not a pleasant experience...

Cheers
Post #693687 16th Mar 2018 7:14am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Have you checked the VIN number and then see if you fall in the range of one of the two TSB mention above?
Post #693727 16th Mar 2018 9:45am
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MartnH



Member Since: 30 Oct 2017
Location: Nsw
Posts: 28

Australia 
Supacat wrote:
Have you checked the VIN number and then see if you fall in the range of one of the two TSB mention above?


its actually outside the vin 732615-446832. its before 446832...

does it mean I have got the updated, harder to program 10as black box?....

but by the looks of the operation manual, it seems the black box is the same but the wiring changed.

cheers
Post #693878 16th Mar 2018 9:14pm
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mse



Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5024

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Scotia Grey
Green is lucas if i remember correctly Mike
Post #694031 17th Mar 2018 12:42pm
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