 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Out Of Fuel - Lucky Or What? |
 
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16858   
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Observations:-
1. The 2.4 low-fuel strategy is to introduce a misfire (to simulate traditional running-out-of-fuel symptoms) then eventually kill the engine. The engine can be restarted about three times and the cycle repeats, until eventually it decides that you are daft and refuses to start. It will not put the engine into limp mode, and it will kill the engine before air is drawn into the fuel system. 2. You can drive at least 50 miles on normal roads in a heavily laden 110 after the light comes on before the low-fuel strategy is initiated. 3. Pumping the throttle will do nothing except maybe give him an RSI injury to the ankle. 4. It is hard to understand how your experience was due to low fuel, based on what you describe, unless for some reason your Defender is not behaving correctly. 5. Glad you got home OK. |
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8th Aug 2020 10:16pm |
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| MikeJ Member Since: 04 May 2014 Location: Dorchester, Dorset Posts: 41 
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Not sure about the 50 Miles (in a 2.2 at least).
This was 18 miles from the light coming on... It was still running. This was the cherry picker, so the full 3.5 tonnes, but still... I think the low fuel warning could do with coming on earlier - I have a 110 as well and it doesn't change my opinion! Mike  Click image to enlarge |
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10th Aug 2020 1:59pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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From the 2007 Workshop Manual (2.4):
"LOW FUEL INDICATION AND RUN DRY STRATEGY The run-dry strategy is used to maintain the systems fuel prime at fuel run out. It ensures the minimum amount of fuel is always left in the swirl pot. The instrument cluster activates the yellow low fuel warning light, (next to the fuel gauge) with 15% of fuel remaining in the tank. The fuel gauge will indicate empty with 11% of fuel left in the tank. With 4 liters left in the tank the run-dry strategy will be invoked. An engine mis-fire will be induced for approximately 1 mile after which the engine will be shut down. The engine can be re-started in mis-fire mode and will continue to run for a further mile until the engine shuts down again. This can be repeated until the fuel suction port in the tank is uncovered and causes engine fuel starvation and loss of prime. Re-starts after run-dry shut down are not recommended." From the 2012 Workshop Manual (2.2): LOW FUEL INDICATION AND RUN DRY STRATEGY The run-dry strategy is used to maintain the systems fuel prime at fuel run out. It ensures the minimum amount of fuel is always left in the swirl pot. The instrument cluster activates the yellow low fuel warning light (next to the fuel gauge) with 17% of fuel remaining in the tank. The fuel gauge will indicate empty with 12% of fuel left in the tank. With 6 liters left in the tank the run-dry strategy will be invoked. An engine mis-fire will be induced for approximately 1 mile after which the engine will be shut down. The engine can be re-started in mis-fire mode and will continue to run for a further mile until the engine shuts down again. This can be repeated until the fuel suction port in the tank is uncovered and causes engine fuel starvation and loss of prime. Re-starts after run-dry shut down are not recommended." |
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10th Aug 2020 3:46pm |
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| MikeJ Member Since: 04 May 2014 Location: Dorchester, Dorset Posts: 41
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Am I right in thinking that the 2.2 is self priming?
Does that mean this feature isn't in the 2.2? Cheers Mike |
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10th Aug 2020 3:52pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16858
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The second half of Supacat's post above is for the 2.2.
It is interesting to be reminded of the relevant levels of fuel remaining. I have on more than one occasion driven for 50 miles after the light has come on without the "run dry strategy" initiating a misfire (which is about right for 15% of fuel remaining at light-on time), but it is worth remembering that the only way that the vehicle has of knowing how much fuel is in the tank is the tank sender. My experiences, and it would seem from other posts on here, that of a significant number of others is that there is a huge variation in sender performance and linearity, and this will affect greatly the low fuel performance. My original (2007) sender would remain above the full mark for about 100 miles, would then work in a fairly linear fashion for the next 200 miles, and then plummet like a stone in a well for the last 100 miles. I replaced this after the outlet spigots rusted and split the plastic housing causing a fuel leak. My replacement (2018 or so) sender is much more predictable in its performance to all intents and purposes is linear throughout its range, showing 3/4 full after 100 miles, 1/2 after 200, 1/4 after 300 miles, and the light comes on around 375 or thereabouts (obviously all are approximate and depend on driving style, load, and most significantly how much driving above 60mph I have been doing). I haven't tried driving 50 miles after the light comes on with the new sender, and on reflection I doubt that I would be able to. Running a 2.4 completely out of fuel is inconvenient due to the need to bleed (although this is not as difficult as some would have you believe). I do not know if you would need to bleed a 2.2, logic suggests not, but I don't know if there is a TD5-style procedure defined for the 2.2 |
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10th Aug 2020 4:27pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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The 2.2 manual contains a procedure for bleeding but I think from anecdotes on here it has not been necessary for some people.
1.Disconnect the fuel injection pump supply line. For additional information, refer to: Quick Release Coupling (310-00, General Procedures). Position an absorbent cloth to collect any fluid spillage. 2. Install the special tool. Operate the hand pressure pump special tool until fuel starts to flow through the clear plastic pipe and the special tool becomes firm. 3. Remove the special tool. 4. Connect the fuel injection pump supply line. For additional information, refer to: Quick Release Coupling (310-00, General Procedures). Remove the absorbent cloth.
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10th Aug 2020 4:45pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16858
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^^ Isn't that the same as for the 2.4? In which case it is possible that LR simply omitted to update the WSM to reflect the return to a tank-mounted LP pump.
The Puma WSM is disappointing in many ways due to the failure to update the TD5 manual to match the 2.4 and, I suspect, a similar failure to update the 2.4 to match the 2.2. |
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10th Aug 2020 6:19pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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I'll check tomorrow ~ but it would be in keeping, and an apparent tradition it's thought worthy to carry over to the new one and the iGuide.
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10th Aug 2020 6:55pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 19535
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This is why I rarely ever run below a quarter of a tank, and I've never run it so low until that dash light comes on.
Much rather carry extra fuel instead, with a 90 I find I often have to anyway.  Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧 |
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10th Aug 2020 8:10pm |
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